MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

[RdMarquis]

I like the idea of the Monster being a Tonberry, from the Final Fantasy series.

I think it was dismissed in the last thread, but it has yellow eyes, is immensely strong (its signature move is instantly KO-ing one of your characters with a kitchen knife), and could have the ability to teleport people and cause earthquakes. The game designers like to play around with ability lists of Final Fantasy monsters. They don't normally talk, or live in a jungle. They live where the game designers decide to stick the really tough monsters. They have very high HP (in the hundreds of thousands), even for Final Fantasy monsters. No D&D character would be able to do enough damage to put a dent in those numbers, even with critical hits.

I'm thinking that the MitD would have lost its kitchen knife. That would be weird for a Tonberry, but the knife isn't an actual part of its body.

Most importatly, there is a variation of the Tonberry called the Tonberry king, which is the same monster wearing a simplistic yellow crown, which I can't help but notice is what a certain undead villain always wears. Wouldn't it be awsome if the MitD turned out to be the leader of his people? In the grand finale of the Oots, which I hope is a while off, the Order would be in serious trouble when the MitD arrives with the cavalry: an army of its species. Then, after the world is saved, the Monster picks up the crown, looks into a nearby puddle and the last lines of the series are as follows.

MitD: Badass.

(Puts on crown, now looking like a Tonberry King.)

MitD: Really badass.

[Moogleking]

I like the idea of the Monster being a Tonberry, from the Final Fantasy series.

I think it was dismissed in the last thread, but it has yellow eyes, is immensely strong (its signature move is instantly KO-ing one of your characters with a kitchen knife), and could have the ability to teleport people and cause earthquakes. The game designers like to play around with ability lists of Final Fantasy monsters. They don't normally talk, or live in a jungle. They live where the game designers decide to stick the really tough monsters. They have very high HP (in the hundreds of thousands), even for Final Fantasy monsters. No D&D character would be able to do enough damage to put a dent in those numbers, even with critical hits.

I'm thinking that the MitD would have lost its kitchen knife. That would be weird for a Tonberry, but the knife isn't an actual part of its body.

Most importatly, there is a variation of the Tonberry called the Tonberry king, which is the same monster wearing a simplistic yellow crown, which I can't help but notice is what a certain undead villain always wears. Wouldn't it be awsome if the MitD turned out to be the leader of his people? In the grand finale of the Oots, which I hope is a while off, the Order would be in serious trouble when the MitD arrives with the cavalry: an army of its species. Then, after the world is saved, the Monster picks up the crown, looks into a nearby puddle and the last lines of the series are as follows.

MitD: Badass.

(Puts on crown, now looking like a Tonberry King.)

MitD: Really badass.

Okay this is my new favorite theory

Tonberries have appearred in Ruins, Waterfalls and Caves to my knowledge, but never Rainforests.

I don't recall any variation of Tonberry casting Quake or Escape mind

I would love this to be true, but I doubt it somehow

[Somewhere]

Wait, since when can Tonberries use magic at all?

[PerennialLurker]

I want to raise a question that as far I as I can tell was never raised in the previous thread.

It is a common assumption that the monster in the darkness must be either human sized or large because of the box he inhabits. However, I always thought that it was likely that he was much larger, and that the box and umbrella were a variant on a Clown Car Base (Here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ClownCarBase). We know that the umbrella is magical anyway, as it creates a shroud of perfect darkness. I've never played D&D, so I don't know if it's possible to create something like this, but considering that bags of holding are fairly common it seems plausible.

What's attractive about this is that not only would it expand the list of possible monsters, it would provide a really dramatic reveal. A large monster emerging from a tiny space is visually attractive and a common trope, so it fits with the overall tone of OOTS.

Just a thought.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Taking a break to answer a few posts

Might I suggest the "Move Earth" spell as an alternative to Earthquake?

You can, I suppose. But we already assume that the whole scene can be explained with a high enough strength, so a new spell name doesn't bring anything to the table unless attached to an interesting creature.

Has Rich ever said specifically that it is not something that exists in the real world?

Rich has only discarded his own creations.

The MitD is some sort of real-world celebrity, with ridiculously overstated qualities either of that celebrity or multiple characters he has played in the past! It completely eliminates the chore of finding something in a sourcebook that fits all the vague hints we've seen! The only question is, which one?

Feel free to suggest celebrities with the strength to crack open the earth and punch people through walls and for several kilometers and teleport. I can see Schwarzenegger's joke characters kicking someone through a stone wall, I suppose, but everything else...?

spoiler tags within spoiler tags is a bit over the top and annoying. especially when

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soem are even bloody empty

Hey, wise guy, how about when we run out of pages in this thread, you get to write everything down? I'll even delete my first post, so you can see if you can rewrite everything in a couple of hours.

[Insert disparing comment about his lack of intellect here]

There's a direct connection between the MitD feeling sleepy, and the MitD using his powers. Each time in the web comic we've seen him sleeping, or announcing that he was tired, was immediately after using some powerful ability.

The MitD isn't "a creature that sleeps a lot", but "a creature that sleeps after using it's Su/Ex abilities".

Actually, when he is captured in SoD, he is waking up in the morning. He might have used a powerful ability the day before, but we don't actually see such thing.

There is a connection between sleeping and using his powers, but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that he only ever sleeps after using them. After all, by the same token, we never see RC sleep, so we might as well assume he doesn't even sleep. What it does tell us is that MitD does need to sleep (to recover the use of his speels/powers/etc), which discards, amongst others, undead.

Snorlax is too large to be MitD. Far too large.

Snorlax is 6' 11''. It in not too large to be MitD.

Could it be a "Q" ?

Looks like how the hell it wants

abilities, what ever it says.

I really have no idea what you're suggesting here. What's a "Q"? The guy from James Bond? The letter?

Edit:

I always thought that it was likely that he was much larger, and that the box and umbrella were a variant on a Clown Car Base (Here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ClownCarBase). We know that the umbrella is magical anyway, as it creates a shroud of perfect darkness.

Not impossible, just unlikely. MitD has been in several of such boxes, including one in a circus and the one used to capture him in the rainforest. Those two would have had no reason to be magical. On the other hand, the Dr. Who joke of the inside being larger than the outside is an established joke, and I can see Rich pulling it off when revealing MitD.

Grey Wolf

[Kish]

A Q is an omnipotent entity from Star Trek: The Next Generation, with a single appearance on Deep Space Nine.

None appeared on Star Trek: Voyager, because there was no Star Trek: Voyager. And don't even whisper the name of any hypothetical series that might have come out after Voyager didn't come out.

It's not completely impossible, but it strikes me as fairly unlikely. Those Q who appeared on the shows generally assumed a human form, and were physically no stronger or more resilient than humans in that form; the "Escape" thing is the one thing that specifically points to a Q. This might be the answer to Nerdanel's prayers (a Q who assumed the form of a tarrasque, shrunk by the Q when it assumed that form for convenience, still massively strong and damage-resistant from its tarrasque form, and as intelligent as a Q), but I think it's something of a stretch to call it "guessable." Also, "The creature in the darkness was always omnipotent" seems likely to lend itself really well to ripoff endings.

Thinking about this has made me also adopt a position of opposition to Snorlax and every other Pokemon. Something from an unrelated-to-D&D television show is not going to be a major factor in the plot of OotS. Call it a hunch. Call it a twenty-gold bet, for anyone who thinks it is.

[Nerdanel]

Move Earth doesn't match what happens in the comic, but Earthquake matches it exactly. I think it's highly likely that what happened was indeed an Earthquake effect as per the spell. The only other credible option is very high strength coupled with artistic license.

This spell does not violently break the surface of the ground.

Earthquake is the spell that create temporary chasms that people can fall into.

[E-Arkham]

Missing the Li Lung. C&P from my suggestion in the old thread:

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Li Lung (Earth Dragon). From 3rd edition Oriental Adventures (and earlier, 1st edition Fiendish Folio).

Sample of description: "A li lung has the body and tail of a lion with a humanlike face. Colorful quills like the tail feathers of a peacock adorn its wings (li lungs are the only lung dragons with wings), and its eyes look like molten gold with small black pupils in their midst."

CR and size ranges from 8 (Juvenile) and medium to 24 (Great Wyrm) and gargantuan. Young Adult is large. Ancient is the first size at Huge (debatably still able to fit inside cage) as well as CR21, and has a strength in the mid 30s.

Innate once a day Earthquake ability as well as a roar. All lung dragons have a plane shift ability.

PROS:

1) Could easily be mistaken for another creature such as a sphinx or manticore
2) Description of eyes is spot on
3) Reasonably strong, potentially challenging, and (debatably) correctly sized
4) Somewhat obscure yet could still be presented with an iconic appearance
5) Damage reduction
6) Has both earthquake AND a powerful roar

CONS:

1) Aside from plane shift, lacks any wish, miracle or teleport ability that could reasonably explain O'Chul and V's escape
2) Personality (sleepiness, constant desire to consume, etc) doesn't match typical li lung's description
3) Even mid 30s strength is probably not able to knock Miko and her horse several miles

Probably goes in one-off or forerunner, depending.

Kep

[Watcher]

...but Earthquake matches it exactly.

Except Earthquake only lasts for one round and then closes everything up when that round is over, but the cracks MitD opens stay for longer.

Also, move actions can't be made during the round of an earthquake.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

My Guess? Minya, son of Godzilla. Everthing fits.

Minya could talk, but none of the other rubber-suited monsters could.

He wasn't on Monster Island, so he wasn't where the Big Game Hunters would normally expect to find him.

Godzilla's stomp is known for causing earthquakes.

Godzilla is the King of the Monsters, Minya is a much smaller, child version of dear old dad.

The MitD even mentions having a father, who was much bigger than he is. The Tarrasque is a unique monster, with no mates or children.

minya was the only Toho monster written specifically for the children's market.

People outside of gaming will recognise Japanese Rubber Suit monsters, even if they don't know them by name. People outside of gaming won't necessarily recognise D&D specific monsters, templated creatures, Pun-Pun, or Pokemon that aren't owned/trained by Ash and his friends. Everyone knows Pikachu, but many of the rest? "Uh? Ubuntu? I was never really into Pokemon..."

[Grey_Wolf_c]

People outside of gaming will recognise Japanese Rubber Suit monsters, even if they don't know them by name. People outside of gaming won't necessarily recognise D&D specific monsters, templated creatures, Pun-Pun, or Pokemon that aren't owned/trained by Ash and his friends. Everyone knows Pikachu, but many of the rest? "Uh? Ubuntu? I was never really into Pokemon..."

Utterly and completely irrelevant. MitD isn't necessarily famous, recognisable or otherwise iconic, and for my life I can't say why everyone seems to think he is. As support for MitD, it ranks around the same place as "and it is green!".

Anyway, back to "godzilla jr": is he an intellectual property? It seems like he is, if he was marketed to children. Also, how would it account for O'Chul's escape?

E-Arkham: many of the proposed ideas are missing, because I'm still in page 9. Give me a few days, for Zeus' sake. I do want to have a life, if at all possible. 5 hours a day dedicated to this feels about right.

Thanks,

Grey Wolf

[Kish]

My Guess? Minya, son of Godzilla. Everthing fits.

Everything? I don't see anything in the rest of your post about Minya being able to teleport anyone; can he?

[Nerdanel]

Good catch about the move actions. So, then I say everything fits except the ability of Haley and Belkar take actions during the round (or several rounds).

It wouldn't be the first spell misrepresented in the comic. (See, for example, Animate Dead.)

However, I still think there's something supernatural going on. If the MitD caused the earthquake with sheer strength, I'd have expected a bigger sound effect than a feeble "stomp". Also, the main direction of the cracks is extremely convenient. Could the MitD really aim that well without magic?

[silversaraph]

It's amazing how much effort is put into this...

Not sure if this as been stated, but about his defenses, in a bonus comic of war and xps, Redcloak mentions that it would do nothing to stab him "In face" (no idea whether the absence of a "the" was a typo or on purpose."

On page 415a, "I don't know whether the fact you wouldn't be injured is a point against me stabbing you in face with my quill, or in favor of it."

On the same page, he also mentions he got jelly on him once (For diet)

Um, and he can draw, badly, according to the same page.

Edit: OOH! and he can hold crayons, which says something about digits capable of grasping small things.

[mofabulous]

I hope Rich changes his mind and never reveals the MiTD. It's a mystery that creates huge debates that have endless speculation. Does anyone really want this comic to end? I know I don't. Obviously it will someday, but revealing the MiTD would be a huge step to lose the comics mystique.

It's just like Varsuvius. Obviously Rich is making fun of how androgynous elves are. But no one seems to realize that. They seem to think that V must either be a female or a male and they debate it endlessly.

Could you imagine how much interest those same people would lose if Rich just came out and said ok V is a guy. No more debates on it. He's a guy. Those people would be crushed. All that time debating over it wasted.

So Rich, please don't reveal the monster. People don't really care to learn what it is. We just want to speculate on it. You'd only ruin it if you reveal it.



That said I used to think the monster was a rock since it fit all the clues. But the teleporting Ochul and V seems to mean its something else. I've searched old source books for something in D&D world and nothing seems to fit so it must be something from popular fiction thats non D&D related.

[Kish]

I hope Rich changes his mind and never reveals the MiTD. It's a mystery that creates huge debates that have endless speculation. Does anyone really want this comic to end?

Yes. Yes, I do. Any fictional medium suffers from going on too long; the best stories are ones with planned endings.

[Nimrod's Son]

So Rich, please don't reveal the monster. People don't really care to learn what it is. We just want to speculate on it. You'd only ruin it if you reveal it.

You've enjoyed his story so far, right? What makes you so sure sure that something he's had planned since pretty much the beginning, which he's decided to keep secret till the climax, is going to be such a disappointment?

Not to mention that the people who "just want to speculate" are in a minority. Most people just want the story, and Rich would be gypping them to change his mind now for the sake of keeping a few fans happy.

[rewinn]

Has Rich ever said specifically that it is not something that exists in the real world? If not, I have a very interesting solution.

The MitD is some sort of real-world celebrity, with ridiculously overstated qualities either of that celebrity or multiple characters he has played in the past! It completely eliminates the chore of finding something in a sourcebook that fits all the vague hints we've seen! The only question is, which one?

Chuck Norris as a baby?

[Kish]

No, see, the creature in the darkness is something powerful. Not a baby version of a minor celebrity who is the focus of jokes which were funny for ten seconds before the earth cooled enough to be habitable.

[Jolee]

Ok, two comments:

1) In the first post under "eyes" suggests that he doesn't have darkvision since he claims in the linked strip that he "can't see anything in all this darkness". We know that the magical darkness he's in doesn't even allow darkvision from this strip, so we can't rule out darkvision yet.

2) On the topic of sleeping, here's an example of MitD falling asleep without using his powers.

[DarkElfGangsta]

do we know for sure the MitD is a monster from DnD?

[Shale]

No. We know that it's something Rich Burlew didn't make up himself, but we don't know where he got it.

[Selene]

Could it be a "Q" ?

Looks like how the hell it wants

abilities, what ever it says.

(edit for typo)

I'd be scared of a Q. But I doubt one could pretend the MitD level of stupid if the rest of them are half as arrogant as the John DeLancie version.

A Q is an omnipotent entity from Star Trek: The Next Generation, with a single appearance on Deep Space Nine.

None appeared on Star Trek: Voyager, because there was no Star Trek: Voyager. And don't even whisper the name of any hypothetical series that might have come out after Voyager didn't come out.

See, now there you go expecting too much. They can't all be TNG. Try comparing Voyager and its followers to something like Big Brother. Now it's good.

The Tarrasque is a unique monster, with no mates or children.

Please keep saying this.

Anyway, back to "godzilla jr": is he an intellectual property? It seems like he is, if he was marketed to children.

Yeah, and ISTR reading that Godzilla's owners got some website shut down because it had something- "zilla" in the name and used a dinosaur logo. So unless I'm remembering wrong (very possible), that means they're overly defensive.

2) On the topic of sleeping, here's an example of MitD falling asleep without using his powers.

But he doesn't fall asleep in that one. He just says goodnight to O-Chul. I said goodnight to my kids hours ago, and I'm not asleep.

[Herald Alberich]

Yeah, and ISTR reading that Godzilla's owners got some website shut down because it had something- "zilla" in the name and used a dinosaur logo. So unless I'm remembering wrong (very possible), that means they're overly defensive.

If that were the case, Mozilla, makers of Firefox and other open-source goodness, and owners of this mascot, would be in trouble, but they seem to be doing fine. I probably would have heard about a lawsuit from Toho against them.

[Nimrod's Son]

If that were the case, Mozilla, makers of Firefox and other open-source goodness, and owners of this mascot, would be in trouble, but they seem to be doing fine. I probably would have heard about a lawsuit from Toho against them.

Mozilla is a non-profit organisation, though, which makes a big difference.

[HotAndCold]

I think the company in question was actually using Godzilla, like, straight up. It was a Seattle-based company, I know that for sure. I talk a bunch with a group of people from Seattle and they talked about it a good bit when it happened.

Ah! That's right, the company's name was Pink Godzilla, but they changed it to Pink Gorilla. They were talking about how it was disorienting to see a monkey (yes, we all know that gorillas are not monkeys) instead of a lizard.

So, er, yes, likely not Godzilla or his spawn.

[Ancalagon]

You've enjoyed his story so far, right? What makes you so sure sure that something he's had planned since pretty much the beginning, which he's decided to keep secret till the climax, is going to be such a disappointment?

After the years of guessing and having fun it with, starting to like it, after everyone has a (more or less) slightly different version of it in his or her mind, the revelation is VERY likely to be a disappointment for many people.

At least those who are not familiar with the fictional work where the monster comes from are likely to be disappointed. For example, it might be the most awesome and fitting revelation of some Final Fantasy Monster (or D&D or Star Wars or Star Trek or... whatever), those who are not familiar with that setting or do not like it for some reason WILL be disappointed.
Unless the revelation comes from some totally accepted pop-culture-thing (which at the moment leaves only Godzilla), the revelation will create disappointment in some way.

It's good Tolkien never revealed Tom Bombadil's true nature.

I'm not saying that the revelation of the MitD will result in a disappointment (for a few or many) or that I do not want it revealed (I want to know, even if I might be disappointed!)
I just say it's, based on the data I have now to estimate this, probable a high percentage will not find the finaly revelation awesome.

[TriForce]

on a different note, i keep reading about the monster knocking miko away for miles of the tower, something assumed becouse you cannot see the tower anymore on the page where she lands, but for all we know she just landed next to the tower, and the "camera angle" was pointed away from the tower, that makes much more sence then miko flying for miles and still surviving the landing, and the monster catching up to them so soon

[Ancalagon]

on a different note, i keep reading about the monster knocking miko away for miles of the tower, something assumed becouse you cannot see the tower anymore on the page where she lands, but for all we know she just landed next to the tower, and the "camera angle" was pointed away from the tower, that makes much more sence then miko flying for miles and still surviving the landing, and the monster catching up to them so soon

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0374.html

9th panel. It's of course "artistic freedom", but it shows Miko did not just land at the foot of the tower. She flew.

[Nerdanel]

I've also been thinking about that.

If the tower is on a high cliff, it's possible that Miko didn't travel more than a square or two horizontally while still falling from a great height.

I know there's a feat (possibly not SRD) that allows a character to push back a little way someone they hit with their attack, but I can't find it. Depending on the exact wording of that feat, it's possible that it doesn't mention what happens when the target stands next to a wall...