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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    eek Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    I did some more looking through the templates. Some things I noticed:

    Monster of Legend, among other nice things like sizable stat boosts, gives the choice of one of the following Special Attacks: Breath Weapon, Frightful Presence, Poison, Raging Blood, and Spells. Frightful Presence is of particular note:

    All creatures within 20' that have fewer HD than the Monster of Legend are Shaken when it roars, growls, etc. Effect lasts until target is more than 20' away.
    This could explain the scene with Haley and Belkar.

    Oh, an in case you wonder, the spells a Monster of Legend may get are only limited cleric spells of up to the fifth level, so they don't have much explanatory power.

    The biggest problem with Monster of Legend relates to template stacking. It can be added only on an Animal, Magical Beast, or a Monstrous Humanoid while many nice templates (like this one) do things like turn the creature into an Outsider. This wouldn't have to be a problem, except that the template doesn't say that it's inherited, and inherited templates are always added first. On the other hand, Monster of Legend doesn't say it's acquired either...

    Half-Troll is a template that, among other things, greatly increases physical stats while decreasing mental ones. However, of particular note is that the base creature gains many of the Troll attributes, among which is insatiable hunger. This template is also the only one I've found that make the target eat a lot, MitD-style. (There are other templates like Ravenous and Ghul that also cause some sort of hunger effect, but those range from implausible to downright impossible for the MitD.)

    So if the base creature isn't already a big eater (like the Tarrasque), it implies that we need to add Half-Troll on top of it. If not, Half-Troll might be there anyway, but we have no evidence for it.

    Half-Nymph has Awesome Beauty which does a very good job of explaining the audience reactions at the circus.

    Any humanoid within 30' who looks at the Half-Nymph is Shaken (WillNeg, DC is Charisma-based) for 1 minute. Continued looking results in additional saves, the failure of which resets the duration.
    This template can explain how the MitD can be beautiful and ugly at the same time if the rest of the stack handles the ugly. The Half-Fey template in particular is a good source for it, as are crossbreeds with ugly creatures like Half-Troll. Significantly, Awesome Beauty affects only humanoids, and goblinoids are not humanoids, which explains the differing reactions of humans and goblins in the audience.

    The problem is that Half-Nymph can only be added on top of a humanoid, and the selection of humanoid base creatures is severely limited. Additionally, no template turns anything into a humanoid.

    So, perhaps something like (going on a limb here, and even I think this is very much ridiculous and speculative, but bear with me since OOTS is a humor comic)...

    Phrenic Half-Earth Elemental Half-Water Elemental Half-Dragon (Crystal) Half-Fey Half-Ogre Half-Scrag Half-Troll Half-Nymph Half-Elf?

    If the MitD has a humanoid base creature, it needs to be something slowly-maturing like an Elf or a Half-Elf. Starting with a mere Humanoid, the template stack also needs a lot of strength raising templates in it, which I chose semi-randomly.

    However, it is questionable if the MitD can be a humanoid at all, given the reactions of the stereotypical big game hunters.

  2. - Top - End - #212
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdanel View Post
    Interesting stuff.
    What monsters have those abilities naturally?

  3. - Top - End - #213
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Frightful Presence is, like, really common, although not all of them have the exact same activation and other rules.

    - Dragons (tons and tons of different dragons)
    - Flesh Colossus (does not fit the MitD)
    - Tarrasque
    - Vermiurge (We haven't seen the demon roaches in big enough numbers to make this sound very likely.)
    - Worm That Walks (I have a hard time seeing the MitD as a caster returned from the dead)

    There may be even more; these are just from the SRD.

    The question of which base creatures are big eaters is more about fluff. I know the Tarrasque counts, and apparently so do trolls, and a whole lot of the more animalistic monsters could too.

    As far as I know, only the Half-Nymph template has Awesome Beauty. A full Nymph has Blinding Beauty, which works differently.

  4. - Top - End - #214
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Two more things about comic 651. The first is that in panel three, the Mitd says "your move" spontaneously, implying that O-chul wasn't controlling the pieces. That means the Mitd was doing so, and is looking straight ahead when he says this, so he wasn't leaning down to get at the marble. He says this in a close up panel after O-Chul does his move, where you can't see the board. This means that either the Mitd has some type of appendage that can reach his entire height downward (he's not leaning) or he's using some psionic ability. Furthermore, he isn't even looking down at the board when he places the piece, and if you count the marbles in the first three panels, the first three rows stay the same shape and color, so it must have been farther than that.

    Try putting a marble on a very, very specific part of stone while standing upright with your arms leaning over an object, not even looking at the stone. To me, I think of something with long tentacles with eyes on the ends. Is there anything like that?

    Second thing, people have talked about what the closeup of the go board looks like and if it may be a monster shape or something. What about the panel right before with it? That one looks like a skull and a rat. Um.

    Third, just noticed thing, is that if they can see Vaarsuvius and team evil in the second to last panel from that spot, can't they see them, too? I mean, not at that specific moment, but why is Redcloak and Xykon letting them play "Go" together? It should be pretty easy to tell what's going on.

    If I've repeated what someone else has said please don't blow up on me.

    Edit: Wait, no! He's an elephant! the long appendage thing works perfectly! He just has to be a PSYCHIC elephant, and a whole lot actually makes sense!

    That's the problem with these theories. They have a lot with them, but still have a bunch of holes. (Not indigenous to the rainforest, father was big and ate a lot, scares people who have never seen it before...) We need more wacky theories that sort-of fit.
    Last edited by silversaraph; 2010-01-01 at 01:30 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #215
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    I think maybe we should comb through the monsters with Frightful Presence. I found out that in all the SRD only Monster of Legend had a template that comes from roaring or the like.

    If this trend holds, we might be able to determine that if we agree that the big "NO!" triggered Frightful Presence on Haley and Belkar, the MitD must be a Monster of Legend and therefore he must also be template-stacked to some degree. It also would mean that the MitD's base creature must be an Animal, Magical Beast, or a Monstrous Humanoid (or a Humanoid template-stacked to become a Monstrous Humanoid - if this were the case we could also get the Half-Nymph in).

    Also, it occurred to me that since in the beginning of the story Rich was more cautious of using non-SRD stuff, perhaps that could be an argument of the MitD being purely SRD. That would be a problem for the Half-Earth Elemental, for one thing, though. The SRD doesn't have that many templates.

    Potentially relevant SRD templates:
    - Monster of Legend
    - Half-Dragon (chromatic or metallic)
    - Half-Fiend
    - Half-Celestial
    - Phrenic
    - Paragon
    - Lycanthrope
    - Aasimar
    - Tiefling
    - Half-Giant
    - Pseudonatural

  6. - Top - End - #216
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Just look at all the ridiculous ideas. You all know very well that the MitD will never be revealed to be template-stacked, because the Giant has practically outright said it. At most, it'll be a single template, and not one unique to D&D players (for example, the uninitiated would recognize a lycanthrope, but probably not a pseudonatural creature).

    I still maintain it's going to be played for laughs and turn out to be something real, but comically exaggerated for these purposes, like the infamous Killer Rabbit.

  7. - Top - End - #217
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by megabyter5 View Post
    Just look at all the ridiculous ideas. You all know very well that the MitD will never be revealed to be template-stacked, because the Giant has practically outright said it. At most, it'll be a single template, and not one unique to D&D players (for example, the uninitiated would recognize a lycanthrope, but probably not a pseudonatural creature).

    I still maintain it's going to be played for laughs and turn out to be something real, but comically exaggerated for these purposes, like the infamous Killer Rabbit.
    It's Elan, at epic levels, traveling back in time from the future.

  8. - Top - End - #218
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    I just noticed that in fact I was hasty and Half-Giant is a race and not a template. But anyway, I don't think it has been mentioned in this thread yet that the sample Half-Giant has Stomp as a psi-like ability. What happened in the scene where Haley and Belkar had to fish Roy's corpse from the rift does sound more like Earthquake than Stomp, but on the other hand the sound effect was "stomp".

    Well, perhaps the MitD does have levels in psychic warrior and he spent all/most of his power points augmenting that stomp (Overchannel feat?), which is why the stomp turned out so powerful and why the MitD felt so drained right after.

    Redcloak wouldn't necessarily know about the MitD's mental powers just by looking at him, and he's never paid much attention on what the MitD has to say. On the other hand, the demon roaches have been hanging around the MitD and probably have the best idea of any in the OOTS world of what the MitD can do.

    This is a promising avenue...

  9. - Top - End - #219
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    I think it must be Keith Baker. He was trapped in the Helldeathdoomfire volcano all that time after he and Yydrana beat out Xykon for that second-in-command job. He's a writer, so he can write characters out of existence. That's scary. And he's weird to look at because in black and white, it looks like his eyes are two different colors.

    We can stack templates on to make him fit if we must.
    Done here. Thanks, friends.

  10. - Top - End - #220
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    sheesh, you people are WAY over thinking it, i dont think rich had a bachelor in logic, he probably just found a monster from a book and made it hidden.

  11. - Top - End - #221
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by cybernerd223 View Post
    sheesh, you people are WAY over thinking it, i dont think rich had a bachelor in logic,
    Assuming you mean "Bachelor's degree," I don't either. Largely because I don't know any school that has Logic as a major (Logic classes generally come under Philosophy, in my limited experience). Not, ah, that I'm at all clear on why a degree in Logic rather than (say) a degree in Mythology would be relevant to the identity of the creature in the darkness.

    If you object to a thread, or think "he probably just found a monster from a book and made it hidden" should define all anyone here cares about knowing, wouldn't it make more sense to not post in it? Some people want to speculate about what kind of creature the creature in the darkness is. It neither picks your leg nor breaks your pocket.
    Last edited by Kish; 2010-01-16 at 02:28 PM.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  12. - Top - End - #222
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by cybernerd223 View Post
    sheesh, you people are WAY over thinking it, i dont think rich had a bachelor in logic, he probably just found a monster from a book and made it hidden.

    Such as...?
    Done here. Thanks, friends.

  13. - Top - End - #223
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Could the "Darkness" aspect be a major element? Are there any dark-based monsters out there that fit the profile?

    I say this mostly because MitD is in shadow no matter where he is, even when under nothing more than the meagre protection of an umbrella.

    Throwaway joke, probably. But could it be relevant?
    --

    Meta Knight avatar courtesy of Connor DarkDart.

  14. - Top - End - #224
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Azukar View Post
    Could the "Darkness" aspect be a major element? Are there any dark-based monsters out there that fit the profile?

    I say this mostly because MitD is in shadow no matter where he is, even when under nothing more than the meagre protection of an umbrella.

    Throwaway joke, probably. But could it be relevant?
    Unfortunately, it is not true that he is always in the shadows - in the circus, he was exposed to the public, and they could see him. The umbrella is enchanted to create shadows around him.

    Grey Wolf
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    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  15. - Top - End - #225
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    has anyone else realized that the MitD has the same eyes as the IIFC?

  16. - Top - End - #226
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Acero View Post
    has anyone else realized that the MitD has the same eyes as the IIFC?
    ? One fiend has yellow eyes like the creature in the darkness, but none of their eyes are the same shape.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  17. - Top - End - #227
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    And finally, after strip after strip of those stupid OotS guys (man, what do they think they are? the main characters? Everyone knows we're here to see MitD), we're back to the dearest of our hearts.*

    And he is even poking at the central MitD problem: the escape. Can we strain a clue out of this comic? I fear not, but if we squint a lot and turn our heads, we may want to consider the line "but I don't know any magic! Magic is for smart people, usually, and everyone here tells me I'm as dumb as things that are really dumb."

    For one thing, we know that MitD is not that dumb (he picked up Go! quickly). For another, not all magic depends on intelligence, obviously. But if Rich is throwing us a bone, this could be used to defend that MitD is indeed using int-based magic. Something to consider, at least, even if I'm not ready to add it to the first page quite just yet.

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    *Farcical. Please don't take seriously
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    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  18. - Top - End - #228
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Okay, so why can't it be a Snorlax, I get that it's copyrighted but that hasn't stopped Rich before.


    Fun fact: I was the first to put out the idea of a Snorlax/Munchlax on these boards(not saying I was the first to think it)

    Another fun fact: Un-copyrightable is the longest word in the English language in which no letter is repeated.


    Originator of Snorlax for ... Keep the faith.

  19. - Top - End - #229
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    It seems the MitD does only know other planes from other people talking about them. So it is probably not an outsider.

  20. - Top - End - #230
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by rokar4life View Post
    Okay, so why can't it be a Snorlax, I get that it's copyrighted but that hasn't stopped Rich before.
    It's trademarked, rather than copyrighted. And Rich has not been stopped by trademarks before because parody is an allowed exception to intellectual property rights, while putting Mickey Mouse or any character created after him as a main character - or a main antagonist, as in this case - is not parody.

    Quote Originally Posted by rokar4life View Post
    Another fun fact: Un-copyrightable is the longest word in the English language in which no letter is repeated.
    One of three: dermatoglyphics and misconjugatedly are just as long.

    Grey Wolf
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    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  21. - Top - End - #231
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    It's strange how no monster fits exactly, and we're getting ideas from a finite list.

    For me, the closest match is a baby Tarrasque. The only problem is that the tarrasque is supposed to be unique... But it's still closer than any other creature.
    Last edited by J.Gellert; 2010-01-17 at 04:05 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #232
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Firkraag View Post
    It's strange how no monster fits exactly, and we're getting ideas from a finite list.

    For me, the closest match is a baby Tarrasque. The only problem is that the tarrasque is supposed to be unique...
    Not to mention the lack of speaking, teleporting, and generally being epic.
    But it's still closer than any other creature.
    How figured? It doesn't fit at all.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  23. - Top - End - #233
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Firkraag View Post
    It's strange how no monster fits exactly, and we're getting ideas from a finite list.
    It might be finite, but only in the same way sand grains in a beach are finite

    Quote Originally Posted by Firkraag View Post
    For me, the closest match is a baby Tarrasque. The only problem is that the tarrasque is supposed to be unique... But it's still closer than any other creature.
    Notice that you did not actually support your position, nor discuss its many obvious problems, as exposed in the first post. How does this advance the discussion? Because, unfortunately, this is not a democracy, so a vote for an idea that is generally considered impossible doesn't really help.

    Grey Wolf
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    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  24. - Top - End - #234
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    It's trademarked, rather than copyrighted. And Rich has not been stopped by trademarks before because parody is an allowed exception to intellectual property rights, while putting Mickey Mouse or any character created after him as a main character - or a main antagonist, as in this case - is not parody.

    Grey Wolf
    Wasn't quite clear on this part of copyright law. Thanks for the clarification.


    Originator of Snorlax for ... Keep the faith.

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    @ GreyWolf & Kish

    Re-read 9 pages of topics to see the arguements for the Tarrasque.

    Actually, go read the main reasons why it isn't (teleporation? really? how certain are you the MitD did it? Did you even read the latest strip?).

    Also, support my position? Are you the voting police? I am only stating an opinion and not really obliged to explain everything. Besides, it isn't really hard to figure out in which ways the Tarrasque fits, I mean, it's one of the ideas stated on the very first post.

    ...so yeah.

  26. - Top - End - #236
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Given that this is GreyWolf's thread? Yes, he is kind of in charge of the thing. And there's an entire entry in the first post about why the Tarrasque doesn't fit at all, which I'd imagine makes GW kind of annoyed when people don't read the damn thing.

    Also, is MitD's proclamation that it knows no spells enough to assume that any magical effects it uses must therefore be spell-like abilities?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant
    Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar. Sometimes, characters that have a similar hairstyle just have a similar hairstyle. How many hairstyles do you think there are that can be drawn in stick figure style, anyway?

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Shale View Post
    Given that this is GreyWolf's thread? Yes, he is kind of in charge of the thing. And there's an entire entry in the first post about why the Tarrasque doesn't fit at all, which I'd imagine makes GW kind of annoyed when people don't read the damn thing.

    Also, is MitD's proclamation that it knows no spells enough to assume that any magical effects it uses must therefore be spell-like abilities?
    We aren't really certain on its magical effects, however. It can't duplicate them.

  28. - Top - End - #238
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Firkraag View Post
    @ GreyWolf & Kish

    Re-read 9 pages of topics to see the arguements for the Tarrasque.]
    I've read them. They go, "Powerful and iconic." Occasionally also "hungry."

    Then they stop, because nothing else points to the creature in the darkness being anything like a tarrasque. If you want to throw out all evidence that doesn't point to him being a tarrasque and then say the evidence points to him being a tarrasque, go ahead, have fun.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  29. - Top - End - #239
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Firkraag View Post
    @ GreyWolf & Kish

    Re-read 9 pages of topics to see the arguements for the Tarrasque.

    Actually, go read the main reasons why it isn't (teleporation? really? how certain are you the MitD did it? Did you even read the latest strip?).

    Also, support my position? Are you the voting police? I am only stating an opinion and not really obliged to explain everything. Besides, it isn't really hard to figure out in which ways the Tarrasque fits, I mean, it's one of the ideas stated on the very first post.

    ...so yeah.
    i think its you who didnt read the latest strip mate, if anything, its supporting the fact that the monster did it, so no points for your theory. also, as you pointed out yourself, the tarrasque is supposed to be unique, and the MitD is definatly not. in fact, the tarrasque really has no more similarities with the MitD then a earth elemental to be honest

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    The "Escape" ability could also be an ability that is only usable 1/day(or week/month, depending on the time gap), which would explain why MitD isn't able to duplicate the effects in the latest comic.

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