prestige classes that disgust you...

[kentma57]

Spell Addict(plot and poison pg 72), I found this gem a few years back and remembered it recently while building a boss for an up coming game.
Their casting goes something like:

Level: --------- Casting Class Bonus:
1----------------------+2
2----------------------+1
3----------------------+2
4----------------------+1
5----------------------+2

I'm working on a battle sorcerer, who has taken a major draconic(red) bloodline and a tone of dragon-ish fluff feat and maybe a fighter or crazy draconic prestige class dip.
Now I would never use this class if my guy had not lost a bunch of caster level and I wanted to keep things interesting, but still it's just wrong.

In its defence it does have a few drawbacks but they realy don't make a scratch in the fact that at 10th level you could get 4 6th level spells instead of 3 5th level spells...

So, have you ever encountered something this bad?

ps: before you yell at me I know it's 3rd part and 3.0 but with no update it could still technically be used, I only brought this thing up because I had the book out and it's funny.
pps: the fluff is kind of cool, though it was poorly implimented.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Cancer Mage. You're diseased. Who would want to be around that?

In seriousness, the Incantrix is terribad from a balance perspective. It doesn't even pretend to be balanced with the base class. Same with the Planar Shepherd. Also ones like Hulking Hurler and Dweomerkeeper, where it's obvious the designers didn't read their own rules.

On the opposite end, there are the ones that are so bad, you just want to cry for the wasted potential. Any of the Truename PrCs, the half-caster PrCs, and the Rogue PrCs without SA advancement. A lot of times they're too weak to use, but they could be usable with minor, non-OP fixes that anyone with a rudimentary understanding of balance could make. Such a waste.

[Eldariel]

Tainted Scholar. Completely broken and completely unplayable due to the mechanics. Basically one of the easiest TPK machines in existence.

[nekomata2]

...Green Star Adept....you poor poor construct idiot....

[Tavar]

Also ones like Hulking Hurler and Dweomerkeeper, where it's obvious the designers didn't read their own rules.

Explanation please. Not that I disagree with you, I know that both can be used in horribly abusive combos. I just don't know why they can be used that way.

the Rogue PrCs

QFT. I mean, what PrC's for sneaky classes actually give something decent to the class? Unseen Seer, but that's more cause you're combining it with Wizard.

[Boci]

Explanation please. Not that I disagree with you, I know that both can be used in horribly abusive combos. I just don't know why they can be used that way.

Hulking hurler is broken because of the many ways there are to boost your strength. If you do not pump strength its power is much less.

Dweomerkeeper is just broken. Wish for no XP is one of the lesser problems.

[Mongoose87]

The Eye of Gruumsh. You have to spend the feat to use an exotic weapon, and it's a crappy double weapon. What do you get for it? Natural armor, and you can spit a lot.

[sonofzeal]

Explanation please. Not that I disagree with you, I know that both can be used in horribly abusive combos. I just don't know why they can be used that way.

Thrown object rules state damage is linear by weight after a certain point.

Hulking Hurler lets you throw based on your carrying capacity

Carrying capacity is quadratic by strength.

Therefor, with Hulking Hurler your damage is quadratic by strength.

[Ladorak]

Acolyte of the Skin. Mainly because I still remember how excited I was about it when i was reading the fluff, the first time I cracked open my new copy of Complete Arcane, the first complete book I bought.

I really thought it sounded cool, and was such a positive indicator of the stuff that lay ahead in the book... And then I read the Crunch, and was very very disappointed. I remember that disappointment everytime someone mentions it, it really annoys me.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Explanation please. Not that I disagree with you, I know that both can be used in horribly abusive combos. I just don't know why they can be used that way.

Carrying capacity rules. Carrying capacity is multiplied by additional Str. A Hulking Hurler can throw items=in weight to his Medium Load. Sharp thrown weapons add 2d6 per 200 lbs. So you've got one number scaling linearly, the other by a multiplier. That is never going to balance.

Dweomerkeeper gets spells as Su abilities. Su abilites have no components(material or XP) and cannot be dispelled or disjoined. The only way to remove one involves AMF. So you have a char that can get free Wishes and render himself borderline immortal. That is scary-good.

[erikun]

The many versions of "Elemental Adept" prestige class. Virtually all of them are 6/10 or 7/10 caster level progression, and the abilities you get are typically not even worth the feats you used for entry. (Woohoo, I can change my spells to fire damage? Couldn't I do that already with the Energy Substitution feat?)

Arcane Archer. It's clear what it's trying to achieve, but it fails SO BADLY at it.

Any prestige class where text/table are inconsistent, simply because of the RAW debates over them.

[kentma57]

Explanation please. Not that I disagree with you, I know that both can be used in horribly abusive combos. I just don't know why they can be used that way.

QFT. I mean, what PrC's for sneaky classes actually give something decent to the class? Unseen Seer, but that's more cause you're combining it with Wizard.

Unseen Seer it a Rogue/Wizard PrCs.
While shadow dancer is a Rogue Prcs that takes away the rogue's best way of dealing damage in favor of a few questionably useful way to defend themselves and some cool fluff. (ex: 9 levels(15th odd level) into the Prcs you can control a 6HD shadow that is gone for a month if it is killed of dismised, great...)

[Tequila Sunrise]

Blackguard and Holy Liberator. Because "Wtf, I can't just be one from 1st level?!" That actually goes for quite a few PrCs, but PrCs that make you jump through hoops just to get around a base class' alignment restriction are extra revolting.

Balance wise? Just about any PrC that grants +1 CL at every level. Frenzied berserker. Meh, there's too many to count! PrCs suck.

[Wings of Peace]

Hulking hurler is broken because of the many ways there are to boost your strength. If you do not pump strength its power is much less.

Dweomerkeeper is just broken. Wish for no XP is one of the lesser problems.

Be more creative! Combo it with other things and cast an Explosive Persistent Apocalypse From The Sky! Why smite your enemy when you can smite a small country instead?

[Boci]

Be more creative! Combo it with other things and cast an Explosive Persistent Apocalypse From The Sky! Why smite your enemy when you can smite a small country instead?

Isn't that more an Incantrix thing? Ignore the level adjustment of the metamagic and profit?

[kentma57]

Arcane Archer. It's clear what it's trying to achieve, but it fails SO BADLY at it.

I have had of these guys work out well in a game I ran once.
Though it was gestalt so he still had full casting and I let him chanel spells from magic items when adding AOE spells to his attacks, and I let his classes automatic magic bonus to arrows stack with his bow's magic(Said that the bonus was untyped and there for could stack with anything).

But other than those minor factors/changes it was fine as it...

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I have had of these guys work out well in a game I ran once. Though it was gestalt so he still had full casting and I let him chanel spells from magic items when adding AOE spells to his attacks, and I let his classes automatic magic bonus to arrows stack with his bow's magic(Said that the classes was acutaly untyped there for could stack with anything).

But other than those minor factors/changes it was fine as it...

Yeah, you basically houseruled it back to being good. As-written, though, it sucks, since it's no-casting and the enhancement bonuses don't stack.

[Tavar]

Unseen Seer it a Rogue/Wizard PrCs.

I believe I mentioned this. Actuall, I can add one more to the list: Assassin.

While shadow dancer is a Rogue Prcs that takes away the rogue's best way of dealing damage in favor of a few questionably useful way to defend themselves and some cool fluff. (ex: 9 levels(15th odd level) into the Prcs you can control a 6HD shadow that is gone for a month if it is killed of dismised, great...)

And requires 3 horrible feats and a wasted skill. Oh, and everything of value is in the first 1-2 levels.

[erikun]

I have had of these guys work out well in a game I ran once. Though it was gestalt...

Yeah, that makes a big difference. I'd think the AA would work well with half caster progression, possibly allowing it to add weapon enchantments for free. Yes, you're weaker from giving up caster levels, but you're still shooting fireballs with a longbow.

Blackguard and Holy Liberator. Because "Wtf, I can't just be one from 1st level?!"

This. Definitely this. I would add Ur-Priest to the list, for same reasons and more.

[kentma57]

I believe I mentioned this. Actuall, I can add one more to the list: Assassin.

I know I just took forever to finnish typing, I left Assassin out because at least it gives full sneak attack, poison use, improved uncanny dodge, hide in plain sight and spells.
It's more like a cool way to multi-class the an actual PrCs.
At worst death attack need word and at best it is meant for more subtle in character role playing groups.

[Tavar]

Unseen seer and Assassin are the decent rogue PrC's though. I can't think of any others that really give anything special.

[Rixx]

What disgusts me is 3.5's saturation of extremely narrow (thematically) and poorly thought out (mechanically) prestige classes. Every book came with a huge chunk of prestige classes, when what I would have liked would've been more flexible base classes and class options, with some prestige classes that had a slightly narrowed focus (but not stupidly narrowed).

[nekomata2]

Yeah, that makes a big difference. I'd think the AA would work well with half caster progression, possibly allowing it to add weapon enchantments for free. Yes, you're weaker from giving up caster levels, but you're still shooting fireballs with a longbow.

Pathfinder's AA gets 7/10, the Arrow of Death scales (with Cha)...

[Boci]

Unseen seer and Assassin are the decent rogue PrC's though. I can't think of any others that really give anything special.

Invisible blade? Nightsong enforcer? Dagger spell mage (same reason as unseen seer though for the last one)

[Gorgondantess]

Blackguard and Holy Liberator. Because "Wtf, I can't just be one from 1st level?!" That actually goes for quite a few PrCs, but PrCs that make you jump through hoops just to get around a base class' alignment restriction are extra revolting.

That's what the UA paladin variants are for.

Unseen seer and Assassin are the decent rogue PrC's though. I can't think of any others that really give anything special.

Hmmm...
Well, there's one gem in CSco: Master of Masks. Pretty much, you buy the book for that, and maybe for the feats. Oh, wait, you can get Master of Masks off the wizards website...

[Tavar]

Well, there's one gem in CSco: Master of Masks. Pretty much, you buy the book for that, and maybe for the feats. Oh, wait, you can get Master of Masks off the wizards website...

I've looked at that, and it seems decent for a 1-2 level dip, but I can't see any reason to take it more than that.

That does remind me of Avenging Executioner, though. I think that ones decent.

Invisible blade?

Horrible prerequisites, plus feinting still only works on your first attack in a round.

Nightsong enforcer?

Actually not bad.

Dagger spell mage

Kills your skills, and BaB. For a class that's supposed to be in melee twf, that's just....

[Mongoose87]

This. Definitely this. I would add Ur-Priest to the list, for same reasons and more.

Wouldn't a refluffed Cleric do that for you?

[9mm]

Reaping mauler... poor, poor melee.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

[QUOTE=kentma57;7456952]
In its defence it does have a few drawbacks but they realy don't make a scratch in the fact that at 10th level you could get 4 6th level spells instead of 3 5th level spells...

Tell that to the Dragonwrought Loredrake Sorcerer; at level 10, it's casting 8th level spells.

That aside, Spellwarp Sniper's pretty evil... the lost caster level may hurt, but Wings of Flurry without a save?

[erikun]

Wouldn't a refluffed Cleric do that for you?

Exactly. A 20-level, variant Cleric with special rules for allowing "fallen" Cleric to swap levels into Ur-Priest (much how a Blackguard works) would have been ideal. Instead, we have Clerics of Pelor taking ranks in Bluff and Spell Focus (Evil) in hopes of leaving the church and becoming evil... in order to qualify for the prestige class.