Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

[Trodon]

Hello Giant in the Playground users! I am looking for a good way to go about playing a summoner, I would assume being a conjurer and having the Augment Summoning is a decent start. This is for a game probably going to start about levels 1-3, thanks.

[Glimbur]

Aim for Malconvoker, a PrC from from Complete Scoundrel. You lose a caster level, but it's pretty sweet.

[Temotei]

Make sure you have a bunch of buffs prepared/learned too.

[Arakune]

Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 10/Malkonvolker 5/Full Casting PrC 2

Get this variant.

Check the guide for malkonvolkers, they really get some neat stuff.

[Trodon]

Aim for Malconvoker, a PrC from from Complete Scoundrel. You lose a caster level, but it's pretty sweet.

Wow I forgot about that class, thanks i'll take that if we get that high.

[Livor]

Here are some of the various guides on the subject:
Summonable Monster List
Summoner's Guide
Malconvoker Handbook
Conjurer's Handbook

It might be a tad overwhelming, but this is where the majority of the information is. The Malconvoker Handbook has some good information, regardless of if you are taking the prestige class. Everything else is what it ways on the tin.

[Nich_Critic]

Incidentally, I'm also making a summoner (conj focused wizard base). What are some good buffs to prepare? At low levels (I'm starting at 4), most of my buffs will outlast my monsters, so buffing them instead of my allies doesn't seem to make sense.

I was thinking instead of picking control spells that impair the enemy, but not my monsters as much. Like fog spells I can cast around my monstrous spiders who have tremorsense.

[Dusk Eclipse]

And prepare for a LOT of book keeping, also if you are going specialist wizard look at the ACF abrupt jaunt in the PHII, it lets you telepor 10 ft as an imediate action you INT mod/day

[Trodon]

Wow, Thanks everyone for the replies I'll look over all of the links that you provided, thanks again.

[Gralamin]

Alternative: Go Shaper Psion. Take Astral Construct. Take Constructer and anything from Complete Psi for your constructs. Refluff into being whatever sort of thing you want.

Between everything said here, we've covered most of the bases now.

[Gnorman]

Man, they always forget one.

Here it is: Practical Demonkeeping. If you go Malconvoker, it's a veritable demonomicon for you. Also there is a section on buffs, items, and feats.

If you take nothing else from the link, remember this: the Voor rules.

And prepare for a LOT of book keeping, also if you are going specialist wizard look at the ACF abrupt jaunt in the PHII, it lets you telepor 10 ft as an imediate action you INT mod/day

Any summoner worth his salt will be trading in his familiar for Rapid Summoning, making Abrupt Jaunt impossible (or at least very difficult) to obtain.

[Dusk Eclipse]

snip
Any summoner worth his salt will be trading in his familiar for Rapid Summoning, making Abrupt Jaunt impossible (or at least very difficult) to obtain.

... I forgot that you trade your familiar for rapid summoning....as for qualifying can you take the Obtain familiar feat and then trade for Abrupt jaunt? essentially is taking Abrup jaunt as a feat and IMO it is a good option

[Gnorman]

... I forgot that you trade your familiar for rapid summoning....as for qualifying can you take the Obtain familiar feat and then trade for Abrupt jaunt? essentially is taking Abrup jaunt as a feat and IMO it is a good option

Obtain Familiar is the "(or at least very difficult)" part - most DMs won't (and shouldn't) let you trade in a feat for an ACF - it's questionably legal, highly manipulative, and very, very cheesy.

[Dusk Eclipse]

hmmm you are right, I was just stormbraining some ideas....

[Gnorman]

[aje8]

Take Rapid Summoning and Enhanced Summoning Wizard ACFs. Link was already given.

Then play: Focused Conjurer 3/Master Spec 2/Malconvoker 10/Master Specalist +5

Treantmonk's guide on the subject is great. As are the summon lists (both already linked to)

[Gnorman]

Take Rapid Summoning and Enhanced Summoning Wizard ACFs. Link was already given.

Then play: Focused Conjurer 3/Master Spec 2/Malconvoker 10/Master Specalist +5

Treantmonk's guide on the subject is great. As are the summon lists (both already linked to)

Nitpicking a little, but:

Focused Conjurer 3 / Master Specialist 2 / Malconvoker 9 / Whatever the Hell You Want 6.

I recommend taking Master Specialist to 4 for the +19/20 temp. HP on your summons and then investing in either Archmage, Mindbender, Thaumaturgist, or Paragnostic Apostle.

[Trodon]

Wow Thanks everyone I think I will go Focused Conjurer 3/Master Spec 10/Malconvoker 5/Something else 2 maybe more Malconvoker

[aje8]

Wow Thanks everyone I think I will go Focused Conjurer 3/Master Spec 10/Malconvoker 5/Something else 2 maybe more Malconvoker

Meh.... I'd enter Malconvoker sooner. You REALLY want to get the Demonic Legion class feaure (or whatever it's called) ASAP. It basically doubles your power as a Summoner.

[Trodon]

Meh.... I'd enter Malconvoker sooner. You REALLY want to get the Demonic Legion class feaure (or whatever it's called) ASAP. It basically doubles your power as a Summoner.

That's true, In no peticuler order that's what I'm doing, I think.

[Trodon]

Alright change of plan, it is now an ECL6 Gestalt game, I am a Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 2/Malconvoker 1, what should my other side be? And please hurry if it's possible.

Edit: I am thinking a Sorcerer to get Infernal Heritage so I get that +2 on Caster Level while summoning evil outsiders. But I don't know.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Incidentally, I'm also making a summoner (conj focused wizard base). What are some good buffs to prepare? At low levels (I'm starting at 4), most of my buffs will outlast my monsters, so buffing them instead of my allies doesn't seem to make sense.

I was thinking instead of picking control spells that impair the enemy, but not my monsters as much. Like fog spells I can cast around my monstrous spiders who have tremorsense.

Only buff spell that comes to mind readily is haste, since it hits a five dudes when you get it. If there is a druid in the party, mass snake's swiftness is great with summons, but becomes less so with haste.

Outside of that, you'll probably be better off using things like web and grease to make the hit easier for everyone on your side.

As for a build, I'd go Wizard 3/Master Specialist 2/Malconvoker 5/Master Specialist +8/Fullcasting Prestige Class +2. Options for the remaining prestige class are Archmage for more, higher level summons, Paragnostic Apostle for lore and giving summons fast healing, or just more Malconvoker.

Feats you may consider:

First level:Able Learner to help slightly with getting bluff, more of a filler feat, but, whatever. Collegiate Wizard for all the spells you could ever want through level ups. Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augment Summons are also nice, due to the wizard variants out there and just straight up being human.

Cloudy Conjuration is a must have. The sooner you can get a hold of it, the better. If flaws are allowed, you can get all of these first level, otherwise, I'd drop Able Learner and probably Collegiate Wizard (sadly).

You nab Skill Focus: Spellcrat and Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration) for free from Master Specialist, which ist nice, but not great. If you're starting at a lower level than ninth, I would use your 6th level feat slot to grab Skill Focus: Bluff. Not because it's a great feat, god no, but, rather, because at 8th level, you get it normally. Have it already? Choose a feat you qualify for instead. In this case, that means qualifying for the Summon Elemental Reserve Feat as soon as you qualify for it.

Practiced Spellcaster may also help, especially if you can grab the Spellgifted: Conjuation trait to help prevent the drawback there. Obtain Familiar and Improved Initiative are both fine choices to help guarantee you go first. If the DM agrees, definitely use the Familiar to get Abrupt Jaunt variant.

Extend Spell is always nice to have, too. You may also consider Sculpt Spell for the early levels in addition to or instead of Cloudy Conjuration, but that would also require taking Metamagic School Focus to negate the +1 slot adjustment.


Admittedly, most of this advice is in the guides, but, I figured I may as well drop it down here for reference.

EDIT: Boop, did not see the change to gestalt E6 rules.

Okay, other side to consider: Psion or Archivist, just to help with staying power in an E6 environment and more focus on intelligence. Factotum is also a nice choice and lets you throw that Int mod onto other things a few times per encounter. You may also consider Warblade to help boost both your reflex and fortitude saves, as well as your hit dice.

[Trodon]

It's not E6, It's ECL:6, like we are level 6 it's not the cap.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

It's not E6, It's ECL:6, like we are level 6 it's not the cap.

Oh! Okay, then, I would stick with the advice I threw done. You may want to take a template or two, assuming it affects only one side of gestalt. Half-nymph is good for the boosts to mental stats, meaning you can save the points you would have otherwise thrown into Charisma elsewhere since the template has you covered. Half-Fey is similar, but hits Constitution, so I advise against it. Phrenic is nice and gives a few PLAs based on HD. All of them are LA+2.

I would still stick with one of the classes I mentioned before hand. Archivist and Psion would both give you a silly amount of abilities to use per day, while Warblade would net you d12 HD, a good Fort save, Int to reflex, a good BAB, and maneuvers.

With Archivist, focus on getting long term, divine buffs to help mitigate your weaknesses. With Psion, you would probably want to use Quicken Power and Psionic Meditation to double your payload each round, using your swift action on a power, move to regain focus, and standard to summon.

Warblade would offer you White Raven, which would help your summons charge. It also has White Raven Tactics, allowing you or someone else to take another turn right after yours. As for maneuvers, I would focus on boosts and counters (like the concentration in place of saves ones), mostly, so as to not detract from your summoning prowess. Iron Heart Surge would also help in the event you meet up with an AMF.

[The Glyphstone]

Factotum, Factotum, Factotum. You're already Int-focused, and in 2 levels, you get the awesometastic Standard Action Spam.

[Trodon]

What book is Factotum in?

[Thrice Dead Cat]

What book is Factotum in?

Dungeonscape.

[Trodon]

Oh, I don't have that book.

[Gnorman]

Oh, I don't have that book.

Then get it, because you really, really, really want the other side to be Factotum. Especially once you reach level 8.

As a summoner, you're already breaking the action economy. Might as well shatter it.

[Trodon]

Then get it, because you really, really, really want the other side to be Factotum. Especially once you reach level 8.

As a summoner, you're already breaking the action economy. Might as well shatter it.

Alright I'll see if I get get it from one of my friends, or something.