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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Hello Giant in the Playground users! I am looking for a good way to go about playing a summoner, I would assume being a conjurer and having the Augment Summoning is a decent start. This is for a game probably going to start about levels 1-3, thanks.
    Last edited by Trodon; 2009-12-08 at 07:57 PM.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Aim for Malconvoker, a PrC from from Complete Scoundrel. You lose a caster level, but it's pretty sweet.

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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Make sure you have a bunch of buffs prepared/learned too.
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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 10/Malkonvolker 5/Full Casting PrC 2

    Get this variant.

    Check the guide for malkonvolkers, they really get some neat stuff.

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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glimbur View Post
    Aim for Malconvoker, a PrC from from Complete Scoundrel. You lose a caster level, but it's pretty sweet.
    Wow I forgot about that class, thanks i'll take that if we get that high.
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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Here are some of the various guides on the subject:
    Summonable Monster List
    Summoner's Guide
    Malconvoker Handbook
    Conjurer's Handbook

    It might be a tad overwhelming, but this is where the majority of the information is. The Malconvoker Handbook has some good information, regardless of if you are taking the prestige class. Everything else is what it ways on the tin.

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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Incidentally, I'm also making a summoner (conj focused wizard base). What are some good buffs to prepare? At low levels (I'm starting at 4), most of my buffs will outlast my monsters, so buffing them instead of my allies doesn't seem to make sense.

    I was thinking instead of picking control spells that impair the enemy, but not my monsters as much. Like fog spells I can cast around my monstrous spiders who have tremorsense.

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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    And prepare for a LOT of book keeping, also if you are going specialist wizard look at the ACF abrupt jaunt in the PHII, it lets you telepor 10 ft as an imediate action you INT mod/day

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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Wow, Thanks everyone for the replies I'll look over all of the links that you provided, thanks again.
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    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Alternative: Go Shaper Psion. Take Astral Construct. Take Constructer and anything from Complete Psi for your constructs. Refluff into being whatever sort of thing you want.

    Between everything said here, we've covered most of the bases now.

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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Man, they always forget one.

    Here it is: Practical Demonkeeping. If you go Malconvoker, it's a veritable demonomicon for you. Also there is a section on buffs, items, and feats.

    If you take nothing else from the link, remember this: the Voor rules.

    And prepare for a LOT of book keeping, also if you are going specialist wizard look at the ACF abrupt jaunt in the PHII, it lets you telepor 10 ft as an imediate action you INT mod/day
    Any summoner worth his salt will be trading in his familiar for Rapid Summoning, making Abrupt Jaunt impossible (or at least very difficult) to obtain.
    Last edited by Gnorman; 2009-12-08 at 08:29 PM.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    snip
    Any summoner worth his salt will be trading in his familiar for Rapid Summoning, making Abrupt Jaunt impossible (or at least very difficult) to obtain.
    ... I forgot that you trade your familiar for rapid summoning....as for qualifying can you take the Obtain familiar feat and then trade for Abrupt jaunt? essentially is taking Abrup jaunt as a feat and IMO it is a good option

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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by DuskEclipse View Post
    ... I forgot that you trade your familiar for rapid summoning....as for qualifying can you take the Obtain familiar feat and then trade for Abrupt jaunt? essentially is taking Abrup jaunt as a feat and IMO it is a good option
    Obtain Familiar is the "(or at least very difficult)" part - most DMs won't (and shouldn't) let you trade in a feat for an ACF - it's questionably legal, highly manipulative, and very, very cheesy.
    Last edited by Gnorman; 2009-12-08 at 08:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    hmmm you are right, I was just stormbraining some ideas....

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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)


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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Take Rapid Summoning and Enhanced Summoning Wizard ACFs. Link was already given.

    Then play: Focused Conjurer 3/Master Spec 2/Malconvoker 10/Master Specalist +5

    Treantmonk's guide on the subject is great. As are the summon lists (both already linked to)
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by aje8 View Post
    Take Rapid Summoning and Enhanced Summoning Wizard ACFs. Link was already given.

    Then play: Focused Conjurer 3/Master Spec 2/Malconvoker 10/Master Specalist +5

    Treantmonk's guide on the subject is great. As are the summon lists (both already linked to)
    Nitpicking a little, but:

    Focused Conjurer 3 / Master Specialist 2 / Malconvoker 9 / Whatever the Hell You Want 6.

    I recommend taking Master Specialist to 4 for the +19/20 temp. HP on your summons and then investing in either Archmage, Mindbender, Thaumaturgist, or Paragnostic Apostle.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Wow Thanks everyone I think I will go Focused Conjurer 3/Master Spec 10/Malconvoker 5/Something else 2 maybe more Malconvoker
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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Wow Thanks everyone I think I will go Focused Conjurer 3/Master Spec 10/Malconvoker 5/Something else 2 maybe more Malconvoker
    Meh.... I'd enter Malconvoker sooner. You REALLY want to get the Demonic Legion class feaure (or whatever it's called) ASAP. It basically doubles your power as a Summoner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisti
    "Reason itself is fallible, for logic must account for all the crazy **** wizards keep doing."
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by aje8 View Post
    Meh.... I'd enter Malconvoker sooner. You REALLY want to get the Demonic Legion class feaure (or whatever it's called) ASAP. It basically doubles your power as a Summoner.
    That's true, In no peticuler order that's what I'm doing, I think.
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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Alright change of plan, it is now an ECL6 Gestalt game, I am a Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 2/Malconvoker 1, what should my other side be? And please hurry if it's possible.

    Edit: I am thinking a Sorcerer to get Infernal Heritage so I get that +2 on Caster Level while summoning evil outsiders. But I don't know.
    Last edited by Trodon; 2009-12-08 at 10:30 PM.
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  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nich_Critic View Post
    Incidentally, I'm also making a summoner (conj focused wizard base). What are some good buffs to prepare? At low levels (I'm starting at 4), most of my buffs will outlast my monsters, so buffing them instead of my allies doesn't seem to make sense.

    I was thinking instead of picking control spells that impair the enemy, but not my monsters as much. Like fog spells I can cast around my monstrous spiders who have tremorsense.
    Only buff spell that comes to mind readily is haste, since it hits a five dudes when you get it. If there is a druid in the party, mass snake's swiftness is great with summons, but becomes less so with haste.

    Outside of that, you'll probably be better off using things like web and grease to make the hit easier for everyone on your side.

    As for a build, I'd go Wizard 3/Master Specialist 2/Malconvoker 5/Master Specialist +8/Fullcasting Prestige Class +2. Options for the remaining prestige class are Archmage for more, higher level summons, Paragnostic Apostle for lore and giving summons fast healing, or just more Malconvoker.

    Feats you may consider:

    First level:Able Learner to help slightly with getting bluff, more of a filler feat, but, whatever. Collegiate Wizard for all the spells you could ever want through level ups. Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augment Summons are also nice, due to the wizard variants out there and just straight up being human.

    Cloudy Conjuration is a must have. The sooner you can get a hold of it, the better. If flaws are allowed, you can get all of these first level, otherwise, I'd drop Able Learner and probably Collegiate Wizard (sadly).

    You nab Skill Focus: Spellcrat and Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration) for free from Master Specialist, which ist nice, but not great. If you're starting at a lower level than ninth, I would use your 6th level feat slot to grab Skill Focus: Bluff. Not because it's a great feat, god no, but, rather, because at 8th level, you get it normally. Have it already? Choose a feat you qualify for instead. In this case, that means qualifying for the Summon Elemental Reserve Feat as soon as you qualify for it.

    Practiced Spellcaster may also help, especially if you can grab the Spellgifted: Conjuation trait to help prevent the drawback there. Obtain Familiar and Improved Initiative are both fine choices to help guarantee you go first. If the DM agrees, definitely use the Familiar to get Abrupt Jaunt variant.

    Extend Spell is always nice to have, too. You may also consider Sculpt Spell for the early levels in addition to or instead of Cloudy Conjuration, but that would also require taking Metamagic School Focus to negate the +1 slot adjustment.


    Admittedly, most of this advice is in the guides, but, I figured I may as well drop it down here for reference.

    EDIT: Boop, did not see the change to gestalt E6 rules.

    Okay, other side to consider: Psion or Archivist, just to help with staying power in an E6 environment and more focus on intelligence. Factotum is also a nice choice and lets you throw that Int mod onto other things a few times per encounter. You may also consider Warblade to help boost both your reflex and fortitude saves, as well as your hit dice.
    Last edited by Thrice Dead Cat; 2009-12-08 at 10:40 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of Peace View Post
    "See these cookies? Note how while good they taste sort of bland. Now try these, they're the same cookies but with chocolate chips added. Notice how with the second batch we expended slightly more ingredients but dramatically enhanced the flavor? That's metamagic."
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    It's not E6, It's ECL:6, like we are level 6 it's not the cap.
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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trodon View Post
    It's not E6, It's ECL:6, like we are level 6 it's not the cap.
    Oh! Okay, then, I would stick with the advice I threw done. You may want to take a template or two, assuming it affects only one side of gestalt. Half-nymph is good for the boosts to mental stats, meaning you can save the points you would have otherwise thrown into Charisma elsewhere since the template has you covered. Half-Fey is similar, but hits Constitution, so I advise against it. Phrenic is nice and gives a few PLAs based on HD. All of them are LA+2.

    I would still stick with one of the classes I mentioned before hand. Archivist and Psion would both give you a silly amount of abilities to use per day, while Warblade would net you d12 HD, a good Fort save, Int to reflex, a good BAB, and maneuvers.

    With Archivist, focus on getting long term, divine buffs to help mitigate your weaknesses. With Psion, you would probably want to use Quicken Power and Psionic Meditation to double your payload each round, using your swift action on a power, move to regain focus, and standard to summon.

    Warblade would offer you White Raven, which would help your summons charge. It also has White Raven Tactics, allowing you or someone else to take another turn right after yours. As for maneuvers, I would focus on boosts and counters (like the concentration in place of saves ones), mostly, so as to not detract from your summoning prowess. Iron Heart Surge would also help in the event you meet up with an AMF.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of Peace View Post
    "See these cookies? Note how while good they taste sort of bland. Now try these, they're the same cookies but with chocolate chips added. Notice how with the second batch we expended slightly more ingredients but dramatically enhanced the flavor? That's metamagic."
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.

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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Factotum, Factotum, Factotum. You're already Int-focused, and in 2 levels, you get the awesometastic Standard Action Spam.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    What book is Factotum in?
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trodon View Post
    What book is Factotum in?
    Dungeonscape.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of Peace View Post
    "See these cookies? Note how while good they taste sort of bland. Now try these, they're the same cookies but with chocolate chips added. Notice how with the second batch we expended slightly more ingredients but dramatically enhanced the flavor? That's metamagic."
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Oh, I don't have that book.
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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trodon View Post
    Oh, I don't have that book.
    Then get it, because you really, really, really want the other side to be Factotum. Especially once you reach level 8.

    As a summoner, you're already breaking the action economy. Might as well shatter it.
    Last edited by Gnorman; 2009-12-08 at 11:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Summoner Help (D&D 3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    Then get it, because you really, really, really want the other side to be Factotum. Especially once you reach level 8.

    As a summoner, you're already breaking the action economy. Might as well shatter it.
    Alright I'll see if I get get it from one of my friends, or something.
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