Sorcerer Build

[ChakraChanter]

So I'm totally new to this website. I'm trying this build for a sorcerer. 5 Sorcerer/7Dracolexi/3 Human Paragon/4 Abjurant Champion. I really like the idea of casting unlimitedly, since I see this the only advantage over a wizard. I would love your opinions, and advice of how I can improve.

Feats: I'm going mostly for metamagic. Maximize, Extend. Rapid Metamagic, and Force of Personality. I don't know what else to choose.

Now that I think about it, Stalwart Sorcerer would be a good option and then I could kick off the Human Paragon 3 leaving more room for optimization

Edit: Okay, now I'm leaning on the 1 Fighter/9 Sorcerer/5 Abjurant Champion/5 Eldritch Knight. Was hoping the umlimited spell thing would work, but now that it doesn't, I need to change alot

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Empower is better than Maximize, just fyi. Force of Personality only applies to Mind Affecting spells. You would do better to use Ruin Delver's Fortune to boost your saves.

Human Paragon isn't worth it. I'd go for a full casting Prestige Class instead, such as Fatespinner.

For more information, go here.

[Mando Knight]

Empower is better than Maximize, just fyi.

This is mostly because Empower can be used to gain higher potential damage and has a lower modification cost, correct?

[Pharaoh's Fist]

That, and a spell three levels higher than one you're applying metamagic to is likely to be more powerful anyways...

[ChakraChanter]

Wow, I totally overlooked that (The Force of Personality) But about the empower vs maximize. For this example, I will use fireball CL10. So 10d6 averages to 35 damage. Empowered would take that to 52, while maximized takes it to 60. I may be missing something, but that's how I see it.

[Glimbur]

Now that I think about it, Stalwart Sorcerer would be a good option and then I could kick off the Human Paragon 3 leaving more room for optimization

Stalwart Sorcerer hurts. Since Sorcerer generally doesn't offer much in the way of class features, you're paying spells known to get better BAB and Hit Dice for your starting levels. More spells known are worth more than BAB and even hit points.

[taltamir]

Empower is better than Maximize, just fyi. Force of Personality only applies to Mind Affecting spells. You would do better to use Ruin Delver's Fortune to boost your saves.

Human Paragon isn't worth it. I'd go for a full casting Prestige Class instead, such as Fatespinner.

For more information, go here.

ruins delver fortune is also a "don't die" spell... the saves boost is kinda crappy.. but the cha + 2d8 temp HP, castable during ENEMY's turn is a lifesaver.

[ChakraChanter]

But how about the build? And is it true, at least from what I've read, that the Dracolexi 7 lets you cast infinitely using Veschik?

[ChakraChanter]

Glimbur, Assuming I'm CL18, that gives me only 1 9th level spell known. Stalwart Sorcerer says I must reduce the highest spell known by one (to a minimum of one) What am I missing?

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Wow, I totally overlooked that (The Force of Personality) But about the empower vs maximize. For this example, I will use fireball CL10. So 10d6 averages to 35 damage. Empowered would take that to 52, while maximized takes it to 60. I may be missing something, but that's how I see it.

Seventh level spells include Insanity, Forcecage, Simulacrum (abuseable as hell), Finger of Death, and Limited Wish, all of which are more useful than 52 fire damage, reflex save for half, take no damage if you are a rogue, take reduced damage if you are fire resistant, take no damage if immune to fire, which is a sizeable portion of monsters when you're level 13-14.

[Glimbur]

But how about the build? And is it true, at least from what I've read, that the Dracolexi 7 lets you cast infinitely using Veschik?

Read the whole class ability. Specifically, the line that says

No creature can be targeted by the same Draconic word twice in a 24-hour period

.

Edit: my previous post forgot to explain the assumption that you'll take a PrC as soon as you can and never look back. So the extra BAB and Hit Dice don't follow you but the hit to spells known does.

[ChakraChanter]

Ok, I don't know if I have this right. Ruins Delver Fortune is a spell? If so, where is it?

[ChakraChanter]

Seventh level spells include Insanity, Forcecage, Simulacrum (abuseable as hell), Finger of Death, and Limited Wish, all of which are more useful than 52 fire damage, reflex save for half, take no damage if you are a rogue, take reduced damage if you are fire resistant, take no damage if immune to fire, which is a sizeable portion of monsters when you're level 13-14.

I'm rather lost, how can maximize or empower be applied to most those spell?

[ChakraChanter]

But I'm infusing Veschik into a spell. Not neccesarily targeting my oppenent. Or is that not the case?

[Pharaoh's Fist]

I'm rather lost, how can maximize or empower be applied to most those spell?

They take the enemy out of the fight much faster than 52 fire damage, reflex save for half. The seventh level spells you can be casting instead of a maximized fireball are just better, which means empowering them is not worth it.

[ChakraChanter]

I'm just comparing Maximize and Empower in terms of damage. Replace Fireball with any spell, Maximize will still produce more damage (assuming it's average, and yes I know it's not always the case)

[good_lookin_gus]

But about the empower vs maximize. For this example, I will use fireball CL10. So 10d6 averages to 35 damage. Empowered would take that to 52, while maximized takes it to 60. I may be missing something, but that's how I see it.

How are you casting 6th level spells at CL10? Empowered Fireball is only 5th level; so you could pull that off.

[ChakraChanter]

How are you casting 6th level spells at CL10? Empowered Fireball is only 5th level; so you could pull that off.

Alright excuse my mistake. CL20 casting any damaging spell at 6th level or below. Maximize (assuming average damage) will always be greater than empower. I guess it comes to a point where mazimize can't be used on 7th spells which I assume will pose a definite problem

[ChakraChanter]

They take the enemy out of the fight much faster than 52 fire damage, reflex save for half. The seventh level spells you can be casting instead of a maximized fireball are just better, which means empowering them is not worth it.

I'm not arguing over such spells. Just damaging spells

[ChakraChanter]

Alright, forget about the Stalwart Sorcerer. I'm just always annoyed by the fact I always have pathetic health. I know I'm a caster, but my DM said that if we're fighting a boss, and it sees me as the greatest threat, it'll go after me

[good_lookin_gus]

Are you starting out at level 20?

[Krazddndfreek]

Pharoh's argument is not that it would be better to metamagic those 7th level spells, his argument is that it would be better to use those spells instead of using a maximized 4th level spell.

[Boci]

But about the empower vs maximize. For this example, I will use fireball CL10. So 10d6 averages to 35 damage. Empowered would take that to 52, while maximized takes it to 60. I may be missing something, but that's how I see it.

You're paying one spell level for 8 points of fire damage. Not worth it.

[ChakraChanter]

Pharoh's argument is not that it would be better to metamagic those 7th level spells, his argument is that it would be better to use those spells instead of using a maximized 4th level spell.

Ok, thanks for making that clear. Now I'm face palming myself lol.

Edit: I reread Pharoh's Fist's comment, and he did make perfect sense. I don't know why I just could get it.

[ChakraChanter]

You're paying one spell level for 8 points of fire damage. Not worth it.

It's actually a 12.5% increase of damage, but you do make a good point

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Alright, forget about the Stalwart Sorcerer. I'm just always annoyed by the fact I always have pathetic health. I know I'm a caster, but my DM said that if we're fighting a boss, and it sees me as the greatest threat, it'll go after me

Ditch Stalwart. You want the extra spell. Rely on Wings of Cover, Mirror Image, and Greater Blink to protect you.

[ChakraChanter]

Now that you mention Blink, I would assume it would be worth investing in something where my enemies miss me a certain % of the time.

[ChakraChanter]

So there's an issue with my lack ok good saves, even Will save (due to low Wis), so how can I improve that? Pharoh mentioned a spell earlier, so I guess it's a start.

I honestly think I'm just leaing to another sorcerer optimization thread, which I believe is breaking some rule

[ChakraChanter]

Are you starting out at level 20?

Yes, we are starting at level 20

[Glimbur]

But I'm infusing Veschik into a spell. Not neccesarily targeting my oppenent. Or is that not the case?

You have to target yourself with it.

AC and HP are nice, but they're what fighters rely on. As a caster, you can rely on miss chance. (Greater) Blink + Mirror Image + Greater Ironguard + Forceward +... then the trick is to get all those spells up before/during combat. And that's where the Incantatrix comes in.