Looking for PrC

[Pigkappa]

I'm looking for a prestige class (D&D, 3.5).

- My master is quite unlikely to accept anything that doesn't appear on any official book, so please no homebrewed classes.
- The base class I'm going to start with is the cleric. I really like the cleric, but we already have a cleric in the party and he thinks 2 clerics would be too many, so I can't just go on with the base class.
- I don't really want to be combat-oriented; a PrC with medium or low base attack bonus would be ok.
- I wouldn't like to lose spell levels - I could maybe accept to lose 1, but no more than that.
- I'm likely going to be a dwarf, neutral-good or lawful-good, servant of Moradin or Garl Glittergold.
- I'm going to take Scribe Scrolls at 1st level and maybe one or two more iteam creation feats later, so classes which require a lot of feats aren't a possible choice (Celestial Mystic).
- There's no need for the PrC to be overpowered; the cleric is good enough by himself (too bad most divine prestige classes totally suck).
- I don't really like PrC from Complete Divine (except for the Seeker of the Misty Isle, but that doesn't really fit this character).
- There are a lot of books I haven't read (all those about the species; Defenders of Faith; Tome of Battle, Tome of Magic; Unearthed Arcana; etc...).

Thanks for any suggestion =). There's no real hurry since my current character shouldn't be going to die soon, but since he's the weakest (and most stupid) character of the party, he's kinda fragile...

[DementedFellow]

Since you like creating things. Then I suggest you go for Walker of the Waste from Sandstorm.

It might involve you changing up your base race or burning a feat to get in the PrC, but you get to create Sand Golems and Salt Mummies. You get a pretty good touch attack that does dessication damage. You get a spell-like ability that can turn an enemy into a pillar of salt and the capstone of the PrC is you become a Dry Lich.

What's not to love?

Of course you have to be evil or just generally non-good to make it work. But it's made of awesome.

[Grumman]

What are you actually trying to achieve with this character? All you've told us so far is what you aren't trying to do. Are you wanting to play a Cloistered Cleric / Archivist sort? A healer? An artificer?

[Eldrys]

If you don't want to be combat oriented, you could always be a cloistered cleric Looks like you've already started, my bad.

[Toliudar]

If you're aiming away from traditional "cleric" - which I'm assuming you take to mean "healing", since cleric as the class can do a lot of different things - and don't want to do melee, I'd support the Cloistered Cleric suggestion.

Got Races of Stone? If you go with Garl Glittergold as a deity, you could probably go with Divine Prankster, by getting your DM to waive the race requirement. It's a bardish cleric mix.

[The Gilded Duke]

If going gnome cleric, pick up the.. Shadow Domain from Eberron and the Gnome Domain from forgotten realms, and then later on go into Shadowcraft mage from races of Stone.

You will want some way to spontaneously convert your spells to domain spells. Then when you cast any illusions you can convert them to wizard conjuration or evocation spells of a level lower.

Cleric with some wizard casting without lost caster levels.

[Pigkappa]

What are you actually trying to achieve with this character? All you've told us so far is what you aren't trying to do. Are you wanting to play a Cloistered Cleric / Archivist sort? A healer? An artificer?

The concept is not totally defined yet. If a PrC has a funny concept, I might just stick to that. Anyway, I figure it as a standard healing cleric, which is someway oriented to the study of magic. It could be a Dwarf raised among Gnomes, so it could have a particular kind of irony and it could like the funny spells gnomes use (such as Prestidigitation), yet mantaining the Lawful component most Dwarves have.

The most sure thing there is, is that the character is going to be Good aligned. We have already played an Evil campaign and that didn't work well at all.


I'm going to check Races of Stone. Where is the Cloistered Cleric from? I have never heard of that.

[Shyftir]

You could go with the god of roads, (I'm not even gonna attempt to spell it.) and become a wayfarer guide, you'll completely screw over anything your DM tries involving travel though...

as for a cleric of Moradin:
Hmm a warpriest oddly enough isn't very combat oriented, more of a buffer.

Fortune's friend and Malconvoker are both okay from complete scoundrel.

[Toliudar]

Cloistered Cleric was originally published in Unearthed Arcana, and is also detailed here.

[Pigkappa]

Mh, I guess I'll take the Shadowmaster Mage and/or the Earth Dreamer (both from Races of Stone). I don't really like the Cloystered Cleric, that sounds to me like a weakier cleric. The Archivist is nice, but having to go around looking for Divine Scrolls (which are really less frequent than Arcane's...) or begging a cleric to teach me some spell would be frustrating :(.

Any more suggestion is welcome

[Nate the Snake]

If going gnome cleric, pick up the.. Shadow Domain from Eberron and the Gnome Domain from forgotten realms, and then later on go into Shadowcraft mage from races of Stone.

You will want some way to spontaneously convert your spells to domain spells. Then when you cast any illusions you can convert them to wizard conjuration or evocation spells of a level lower.

Cleric with some wizard casting without lost caster levels.

Player's Handbook II lets clerics swap spontaneous cure/inflict spells for the ability to spontaneously cast from one domain.

Mh, I guess I'll take the Shadowmaster Mage and/or the Earth Dreamer (both from Races of Stone). I don't really like the Cloystered Cleric, that sounds to me like a weakier cleric. The Archivist is nice, but having to go around looking for Divine Scrolls (which are really less frequent than Arcane's...) or begging a cleric to teach me some spell would be frustrating :(.

Any more suggestion is welcome

Go with Earth Dreamer. It's an interesting PrC that doesn't get a lot of love that I've seen, and Shadowcraft Mage has been done to death.

And Cloistered Cleric is not a weaker cleric. You get the Knowledge domain for free in addition to your regular domains, 6+Int skill points, and bardic knowledge. The tradeoff is low BAB and slightly smaller HD, which isn't really a big deal if you're not melee focused anyway.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Shadowcraft Mage is an excellent class, here's a guide for how you can excel with one. Note that you don't need the Shadow domain to qualify, the spell Dark Way (SC) with Heighten Spell will meet that prerequisite. Get both the Illusion and Gnome domains, take the spontaneous domain casting variant from PH2 for either of those, and spontaneously cast Heightened Silent Image with Shadow Illusion as your offensive spells. Be sure to get Earth Spell, which could even allow you to qualify for Shadowcraft Mage two levels early. Divine Metamagic: Heighten Spell is also good, and definitely get Residual Magic from Complete Mage to use Lingering Metamagic.

I'd use Cloistered Cleric to qualify, and Shadowcrafter from Underdark (FR specific) is good for filling out the build. Go Cloistered Cleric 5/ Shadowcraft Mage 5/ Shadowcrafter 10, or if you can't use early qualification tricks grab two Shadowcrafter levels before Shadowcraft Mage. It's also a good idea to pick up Ability Focus from the back of the Monster Manual for Silent Image, since all of your offensive spells will be Heightened Silent Images anyway so that's +2 DC for a single feat. The build is a bit feat intensive, you may want to even take Flaws to start with two extra feats, but I wouldn't recommend spending a lot of feats on item creation. If anyone in the party has an item creation feat, two or more characters can work together to craft an item as long as their combined abilities meet all the prerequisites. For example, if there's a Wizard in the party, you could get him to help you craft divine scrolls using your spells and caster level, and he'd be contributing the feat itself toward the item's prerequisites.

[Pigkappa]

And Cloistered Cleric is not a weaker cleric. You get the Knowledge domain for free in addition to your regular domains, 6+Int skill points, and bardic knowledge. The tradeoff is low BAB and slightly smaller HD, which isn't really a big deal if you're not melee focused anyway.

The low BAB can be compensated by Divine Power, and the smaller HD is not a big problem. But you also lose competence with Heavy Armor and Shields. That means a permanent loss to AC. .

[PhoenixRivers]

Contemplative and Church Inquisitor are both solid PrC's that grant a lot of good abilities that tend towards the non-combat.

Both offer good RP potential.

Contemplative could represent the wise dwarf with a great connection to otherworldly lore, and flashes of insight from his god.

Church Inquisitor is excellent for social interaction, seperating truth from lie, illusion from reality, and punishing those within the church that go against its teachings. Inquisition Domain gives you some extra kick with your dispelling, as well.

Yes, they're both CompDiv, but they fit the bill. Not too many extra abilities, keeps what's good about cleric, not heavy combat focus, but still good, solid PrC's that offer bonus domains (and domain abilities, as well as interesting new spells).

[Glimbur]

If you want a dwarf who isn't really a standard spellcaster but can make magical arms and armor and such, check out the Ironsoul Forgemaster in Magic of Incarnum. It would be easy to lead in to it with Incarnate 5, but Totemist 5 would get you in with a bit more BAB.

This does mean you would have to learn Incarnum, but that is doable.

[Pigkappa]

I just realized that a cleric (or a cloistered cleric, or an archivist, or any divine spellcaster) can't cast most Illustion spells: both the shadowcrafter and the shadowcraft mage grant bonuses to "shadow evocation" and similar spells, and a divine spellcaster can't learn them (they don't even appear in any Domain). There's little point in joining a PrC if its best abilities are useless to me.

So the search starts again

I don't really like the Contemplative concept, and the Inquisitor would be arguing with the rest of the party all the time.

I don't know the rules for Incarnum, are those complicated?

[Ernir]

I just realized that a cleric (or a cloistered cleric, or an archivist, or any divine spellcaster) can't cast most Illustion spells: both the shadowcrafter and the shadowcraft mage grant bonuses to "shadow evocation" and similar spells, and a divine spellcaster can't learn them (they don't even appear in any Domain). There's little point in joining a PrC if its best abilities are useless to me.

The trick lies in Heighten Spell. As before, just being able to cast Dark Way heightened to 4th level satisfies the Illusion (Shadow) requirement.

Then just something like taking the Gnome Domain gets you all the illusions you need, again with the help of Heighten Spell.

I don't know the rules for Incarnum, are those complicated?

Some find Incarnum difficult to get into. But that is true of most D&D.

[Gorbash]

Go with Earth Dreamer. It's an interesting PrC that doesn't get a lot of love that I've seen

Yes, it is. And not only doesn't it get love, there isn't any mention of it at all on these forums.

@OP
IMHO, Earth Dreamer is more wizard oriented prestige class and not at all combat oriented, nor does it have any abilities to support combat so it might not be the best choice for that.

If you can swallow losing 2 caster levels, there's no more combat oriented cleric class than Ordained Champion. Absolutely fantastic for melee.

[Pigkappa]

I can't really realize how this should work. Both the shadowcraft mage and shadowcrafter give a nice bonus to spells such as "Shades" or "Shadow Conjuration". But these spells don't appear in the Gnome domain, in the Illusion domain, in the Trickster domain, they are totally unavailable to a divine caster.

Also, even selecting both the Gnome and Illusion domain, the Illusion spells a divine caster can cast are still quite limited IMO; every form of invisibility is missing, Disguise self is missing, Dream, Seeming, Shadow Walk, Veil are missing. Those PrC are probably better for an arcane caster IMHO.

[sonofzeal]

Cleric X / Dragonfire Adept 1 / Eldritch Disciple X - will certainly set you apart without falling too much behind. Necessary books: Dragon Magic, and Complete Mage. Small quibble - though DFAs qualify, much of the wording assumes Warlock. It's trivial to shoehorn it in, as long as your DM isn't an arse about it.



Cleric X / (Wonderworker 1 /) Sentinal of Bharrai X - could also be fun. Have to jump through some hoops, but you get some interesting toys without throwing yourself off the path. Having feats to spare is helpful here.