Dwarven food structure

[Laharal]

Hey guys! I just read the part about dwarves in Races of Stone (3.5 dnd) and little is mentionned about what they eat and how they produce/gather it. The only things that are mentionned that dwarves don't have above-grounds farmland (as I thought they might have) and that some crops and livestock can be used underground.

What would these things be? Does dwarf food supply is mostly made out of fish from underground rivers? Cave mushrooms? Magic wheat that doesn't need sun? Feel free to say the ''official answer'' (specify according to which book or author) or your own opinion about it.

It may seem a trivial answer but
1) I like to understand economics and the flow of goods
2) Defending (or salvaging from) a food warehouse or production center is always a good plot hook and can have the survival or fall of a city as an effect.

Many thanks,

[snoopy13a]

Well, it is a valid question.

How do Dwarves grow food underground, without any sunlight, in order to support their large cities?

Who knows. Most fanasty authors seem to handwave that.

One explanation is that Dwarves trade for food.

Another would be magic. Perhaps Dwarves have magical light to grow crops underground (you'd need a pretty large cavern though).

Fish underground isn't a great explanation as these fish need to eat smaller fish which need to eat plants which need sunlight. Unless the river is temporary underground, there shouldn't be too many fish.

[Hurlbut]

The food can include what they can forage on hill/mountain sides, but that's only if they live in the hills/mountains.

[oxybe]

if dwarf fortress has taught me anything...

cats. dwarven civilization rises and falls based on their ability to raise cats for food, pets, pest control, currency, furniture, weapons...

[mr.fizzypop]

I always assumed underground fungus, but that seems odd for dwarves to eat. They could always be cannibalistic like in "Cataclysm of Green".

[Sir_Elderberry]

In real life, there are ecologies that aren't based on photosynthesis. Deep-sea geothermal vents support food webs that start with chemosynthetic bacteria feeding on what bubbles out of the vents. Take that, sprinkle in some biology-distortion (if dragons can naturally breathe acid...), and add magic if you like (thaumosynthetic life? Arcanosynthetic? I don't know the right prefix.)

[AslanCross]

I'd think they'd eat giant mushrooms. In Forgotten Realms, there's an underground-dwelling type of cattle called rothe. I don't remember if dwarves kept rothe as livestock, but I'd think they would.

They might actually be accustomed to eating things that our stomachs couldn't handle. There must be a reason why they have that +2 to saves vs poison.

[jmbrown]

Hydroponics. It allows one to grow plants in water using no soil and artificial sunlight. It takes up a massive amount of space and requires dedicated temperature control, but the largest hydroponics plant in the world sold 125 million pounds of tomatoes in 2005. Some people even build terrariums in their basement for food (and... other needs) which usually produce enough food to feed a single person year round.

Using hydroponics you can grow any terrestrial plants. Some are harder than others but I assume one can grow the necessary vegetables and cereal grain for the production of alcohol (which dwarves drink... a lot). If the dwarves live in marshy areas then they could farm for rice. Living in the hills probably means they eat a lot of fungus, protein rich insects (Hmmmm, roast giant beetle and tarantula a la mode), fish in underground lakes, pick wild herbs, and hunt whatever game is in the area. Everything else is probably traded.

In a nutshell

Vegetables: small and hardy vegetables that grow quickly like tomatoes and spinach. Mushrooms and other fungus found in natural caverns.

Grain: Anything they can grow in the water like rice. Legumes like soy beans and nuts are probably plentiful and easy to grow. Grains are probably brewed instead of being made into flower.

Fruit: Whatever they can find or pick in the area. Watermelon grows on vines making it easy for dwarves to pick and avocado trees are indigenous to tropical-hilly areas.

Meat: Large insects and vermin like spiders, rats, grubs, ants, and beetles (giant beetles being plentiful in fantasy mountains; I can imagine a beetle farm). Hardy domesticated hill-region animals like donkeys and sheep are probably bred and herded if the dwarves live near a grassy knoll. Wild game that live in hilly regions like birds, lizards, and wild dogs are probably hunted but in general anything that's not vermin will be rare.

[rayne_dragon]

I seem to recall R.A. Salvator using the aforementioned mushrooms and rothe for the drow, so I imagine that the dwarves would use the same, plus have the advantage of being able to trade with surface races. The underground rivers thing works too, again especially with magic and the whole underdark, so there's obviously quite the underground ecology in the D&D universe.

I've always liked the idea that maybe dwarves eat stone, but then you'd expect them not to be able to eat human food and be even tougher than they are.

[Lord of Syntax]

I think the spell Daylight is involved...

[LibraryOgre]

In Dragonlance, there are some warrens in Thorbardin that have large crystals that go from the surface to the cavern, providing sunlight for crops. Probably bad geology, but there you go.

[Asbestos]

What substrate do these ungodly amounts of mushrooms grow on? The only earthly species of underground mushroom farmers I know of uses foliage from the surface world to provide nourishment for its crops. The lack of surface farming/plentiful greenery in mountains sort of leaves us with a Catch 22. And don't suggest dwarf poo, you can't have a closed system like that (at least not for long)

[jmbrown]

What substrate do these ungodly amounts of mushrooms grow on? The only earthly species of underground mushroom farmers I know of uses foliage from the surface world to provide nourishment for its crops. The lack of surface farming/plentiful greenery in mountains sort of leaves us with a Catch 22. And don't suggest dwarf poo, you can't have a closed system like that (at least not for long)

Apparently D&D's underground contains tons of organic, rotting matter for which fungus thrives on. There are also magical and sentient fungus plus moss that act as perfect refrigerants.

{Scrubbed}

[Leewei]

Magic can be invoked in any hand-waving. Dwarves need not be entirely subterranean, either. They don't suffer from bright light like Drow and Orcs do, after all.

In a dwarf-only game I'm putting together, food will be a real issue. The dwarves are escaped slaves from a goblin tribe and must fend for themselves and their brothers. In the beginning, they will be limited to what they can steal from the goblins.

[Asbestos]

Apparently D&D's underground contains tons of organic, rotting matter for which fungus thrives on. There are also magical and sentient fungus plus moss that act as perfect refrigerants.

{Scrubbed}

Steam? That's a terrible way to prepare mushrooms. Either have them grilled or sautéed in butter... alive. Also, either dwarves have no need for vitamins or D&D mushrooms are ridiculously nutritious.

[Gralamin]

if dwarf fortress has taught me anything...

cats. dwarven civilization rises and falls based on their ability to raise cats for food, pets, pest control, currency, furniture, weapons...

Now surely sir, you realize what it does to a fortresses morale to slay all of those cats. No, you keep one cat, and it will track down all of those pests. All further cats are dumped into The Hole, and when we reach a critical point, we allow the water in. At all other times, The Hole must be avoided, so the feline menace doesn't bond with anyone.

[jmbrown]

Steam? That's a terrible way to prepare mushrooms. Either have them grilled or sautéed in butter... alive. Also, either dwarves have no need for vitamins or D&D mushrooms are ridiculously nutritious.

All the vitamins you need are in dwarven ale

[RandomNPC]

All the vitamins you need are in dwarven ale

mudders milk of course. egyptians used to do it too.

Edit: I can speel good. ya know what? no edit, i'll leave 'em in there.

[golentan]

Dwarves eat Ale, which is a natural byproduct of their digestive cycle. As dwarf beards are organs developed to convert ambient magic into nutrition, this is an open cycle allowing sustained growth.

Seriously speaking, I believe the dwarfs grow potatoes and other tubers, and harvest them from below. I don't remember where I read that, but it made a fair amount of sense to me.

[Lappy9000]

Hydroponics. It allows one to grow plants in water using no soil and artificial sunlight. It takes up a massive amount of space and requires dedicated temperature control, but the largest hydroponics plant in the world sold 125 million pounds of tomatoes in 2005. Some people even build terrariums in their basement for food (and... other needs) which usually produce enough food to feed a single person year round.

Using hydroponics you can grow any terrestrial plants. Some are harder than others but I assume one can grow the necessary vegetables and cereal grain for the production of alcohol (which dwarves drink... a lot). If the dwarves live in marshy areas then they could farm for rice. Living in the hills probably means they eat a lot of fungus, protein rich insects (Hmmmm, roast giant beetle and tarantula a la mode), fish in underground lakes, pick wild herbs, and hunt whatever game is in the area. Everything else is probably traded.

In a nutshell

Vegetables: small and hardy vegetables that grow quickly like tomatoes and spinach. Mushrooms and other fungus found in natural caverns.

Grain: Anything they can grow in the water like rice. Legumes like soy beans and nuts are probably plentiful and easy to grow. Grains are probably brewed instead of being made into flower.

Fruit: Whatever they can find or pick in the area. Watermelon grows on vines making it easy for dwarves to pick and avocado trees are indigenous to tropical-hilly areas.

Meat: Large insects and vermin like spiders, rats, grubs, ants, and beetles (giant beetles being plentiful in fantasy mountains; I can imagine a beetle farm). Hardy domesticated hill-region animals like donkeys and sheep are probably bred and herded if the dwarves live near a grassy knoll. Wild game that live in hilly regions like birds, lizards, and wild dogs are probably hunted but in general anything that's not vermin will be rare.

Your suggestions are amazingly flavorful (possibly literally), as well as very plausible. You can infer a ton about (potential) dwarven cultures from something like that.

+1

[Tackyhillbillu]

Food? Thats hoity toity Elven Stuff.

We drink beer! And Cook Beer!

[Laharal]

Thanks for all the answers:serious and less serious ones too (I need a good laughter once in a while )

[Iamyourking]

I would say they trade for some of it; but they raise a kind of hardy goat on the slopes of the mountains, have shafts bored through the stone for sunlight to sustain underground plants, use hydroponics, and eat various underground fungi and animals. Plus the beer is rich enough for them to live off of if necessary.

[Asbestos]

Aw man, now we need to figure out a way to grow all the hops and barley needed to make these absurd amounts of beer.

Perhaps dwarven strongholds contain massive terraced, hydroponic hops/grain farms. The bits of plant not used for beer production are used to feed the underground rothe, which provide some meat but mainly milk. This milk is churned into butter which is used used to grease a massive skillet the size of a basketball court. Local Myconids/other mobile fungi are herded into this area and sealed inside while beneath the skillet-room great forges are fired, quickly heating the skillet. This massive cooking facility doubles as a trap for would be invaders. All dung/food waste is used to feed the larva of monstrous insects which are in turn slaughtered for food and used to produce various useful products.

The massive hop-pyramids can do double duty as temples.

Edit: I think I'll try to incorporate a giant, greased death trap into the next adventure I run.

[Amiel]

IIRC, the duergar or grey dwarves, farmed, harvested and ate bugs, specifically beetles. Not only is this food full of protein, but it's also, rumored to be, delicious and highly nutritious. Given the climatic environment of the Underdark, this would yield the best and most rewarding results, in both monetary and culinary terms.


Dwarves have beards, not only are these beards an indication of their stature and prowess in their community, but it is a boundless and free source of food. What they eat is also deposited in their beards, so that it can be saved for later and eaten at their leisure; this would account for their stature and rotundness.
This would likely mean a symbolic relationship, wherein there are creatures in their beards that grow and plant food for them in their beards in exchange for beer or food spilt, gems and other shiny things.
Indeed, many have speculated that perhaps a dwarves' beard is an extradimensional portal to a demiplane, a bag of holding if you will.

[Hallavast]

One explanation is that Dwarves trade for food.

This is by far the most sensible so far (though Dwarven Hydroponics is certainly more entertaining). With all the gems and precious metals that they mine, it would be easy to trade them to surface races for food.

Another would be magic. Perhaps Dwarves have magical light to grow crops underground (you'd need a pretty large cavern though).

Change "magical light" to a heat source, and you might have something there. Some kind of underground mud algae that converts heat energy feeds the mushrooms that dwarves use for their Dwarf Spirits (and supernatural male enhancements...).

An alternate opinion from Artemis Fowl is that dwarves eat dirt .

[Asbestos]

This is by far the most sensible so far (though Dwarven Hydroponics is certainly more entertaining). With all the gems and precious metals that they mine, it would be easy to trade them to surface races for food.

The problem with this is that the dwarves would be nearly completely dependent on the surface races for food and the surface races could probably figure this out. This leads to the dwarves paying highly inflated prices for food or the dwarves becoming raiders (like those orcs that live in those mountains and also don't grow their own food) which in turn causes a lot of people to move away from the dwarf mountains which causes the dwarves to collapse into some sort of hunter gatherer society or becoming nomadic raiders.

[jmbrown]

IIRC, the duergar or grey dwarves, farmed, harvested and ate bugs, specifically beetles. Not only is this food full of protein, but it's also, rumored to be, delicious and highly nutritious. Given the climatic environment of the Underdark, this would yield the best and most rewarding results, in both monetary and culinary terms.


Dwarves have beards, not only are these beards an indication of their stature and prowess in their community, but it is a boundless and free source of food. What they eat is also deposited in their beards, so that it can be saved for later and eaten at their leisure; this would account for their stature and rotundness.
This would likely mean a symbolic relationship, wherein there are creatures in their beards that grow and plant food for them in their beards in exchange for beer or food spilt, gems and other shiny things.
Indeed, many have speculated that perhaps a dwarves' beard is an extradimensional portal to a demiplane, a bag of holding if you will.

The beard thing never gets old.

And yes, protein rich insects are good. I've had my fair share (IE once or twice) of massive grubs (I'm talking palm sized), roast tarantula, grasshopper, snails, frog, snake (their venom can be used to flavor alcohol), and fruit bat. Humans can subsist comfortably on things you find in your back yard. Feeding a large group of people is difficult scavenging but dwarven clans are usually described as growing no larger than a few thousand with the average being a few hundred.

[Asbestos]

The beard thing never gets old.

And yes, protein rich insects are good. I've had my fair share (IE once or twice) of massive grubs (I'm talking palm sized), roast tarantula, grasshopper, snails, frog, snake (their venom can be used to flavor alcohol), and fruit bat. Humans can subsist comfortably on things you find in your back yard. Feeding a large group of people is difficult scavenging but dwarven clans are usually described as growing no larger than a few thousand with the average being a few hundred.

Yeah, but that's just subsisting, you're going to need a food surplus for you know... civilization.

Edit: If they weren't disallowed surface farms they'd pretty much end up with a system like the Incas had.

[Vitruviansquid]

The way I see it, underground cities are supported just like overground cities: trade goods and services to surrounding farmland for food, leather, lumber, and other products that can only be obtained above ground.