Turn Undead [3.5]

[Scipio]

In the Simple Q&A thread answer to Q1, there is a comment about TU not working if you are invisible. I have never read anything to suggest that TU requires the undead to see you or your holy symbol to work. Can someone confirm this? Thanks.

[Milskidasith]

Invisibility doesn't block LoE, and it's a burst, so it works. However, if you mean you are invisible, it might be considered an attack and break your invisibility. Not sure on that one.

EDIT: I'm not entirely clear on the turn undead rules, though, since turning undead is generally suboptimal.

[Zaydos]

You must present your holy symbol to turn undead. Turning is
considered an attack.

I would assume it is the "must present your holy symbol" part.

[Milskidasith]

It never says you have to present it to that undead, though... I mean, present isn't a D&D term (by RAW) so you could make a strong argument meaning you just pull your holy symbol out and wave it around. It's not like you have to aim, after all.

[Scipio]

In my case, I am talking about a gestalt cleric/ninja. TU will not break a ninja's ghost step (invisible), so that is not an issue. There are actually rules concerning how to present a holy symbol. They are under the "repelling a vampire" section of the vampire entry. I would say that a vampire would have to see your holy symbol (or mirror) to be held at bay, so the same may be true with turn undead. But holding a vampire at bay and turning undead are not the same thing.

[Thurbane]

Really depends how RAW or RAI you want to get. I'd say it was completely reasonable to say that presenting your holy symbol while the undead to be turned cannot see it would be ineffective.

Also, if you do rule it to be effective (and probably even if not), it almost certainly would count as an attack in terms of breaking Invisibility (if the Ninja ability works the same as the spell).

[KillianHawkeye]

if the Ninja ability works the same as the spell

It doesn't.

[Thurbane]

It doesn't.

Fair enough. To be honest, I've never seen one played in our game, so I wasn't sure...

[Optimystik]

Invisibility doesn't block LoE, and it's a burst, so it works. However, if you mean you are invisible, it might be considered an attack and break your invisibility. Not sure on that one.

EDIT: I'm not entirely clear on the turn undead rules, though, since turning undead is generally suboptimal.

SRD to the rescue!

"Turning is considered an attack."

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

(Because turning undead is for goody-goodies) when I make an undead of more than my HD my b*tch, I prefer them to see who they are going to serve.