[3.5] Fly

[Lioness]

My DM and I have a constant ongoing debate about this spell. Is it personal or not?

He seems to think that the wording in the PHB suggests personal, I say it means anyone.

The official description is:

Level: Sor/Wiz 3, Travel 3
Components: V, S, F/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

The subject can fly at a speed of 60 feet (or 40 feet if it wears medium or heavy armor, or if it carries a medium or heavy load). It can ascend at half speed and descend at double speed, and its maneuverability is good. Using a fly spell requires only as much concentration as walking, so the subject can attack or cast spells normally. The subject of a fly spell can charge but not run, and it cannot carry aloft more weight than its maximum load, plus any armor it wears.

Should the spell duration expire while the subject is still aloft, the magic fails slowly. The subject floats downward 60 feet per round for 1d6 rounds. If it reaches the ground in that amount of time, it lands safely. If not, it falls the rest of the distance, taking 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet of fall. Since dispelling a spell effectively ends it, the subject also descends in this way if the fly spell is dispelled, but not if it is negated by an antimagic field.

Arcane Focus: A wing feather from any bird.

Many thanks, and he's probably right anyway.

[Ernir]

Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched

You can touch anyone. It is not a Personal spell.

And I don't see anything in the text that suggests it. The flying one is always referred to as "subject".


EDIT: Contrast with, say, Divine Power, where it reads:

Range: Personal
Target: You

[dsmiles]

Absolutely not "personal." The range and target do not even imply this.

[Lioness]

Thanks

He insists it's personal, but I'll try and convince him otherwise.

[Optimystik]

You can absolutely cast it on others.

[Ernir]

Thanks

He insists it's personal, but I'll try and convince him otherwise.

Point your finger at the place where it says "Target: Creature touched " until he manages to read it.

But yeah, if he for some reason thinks it should be personal, and is willing to "houserule" it as such, there's not much one can do.

[Cyclocone]

Also:

Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

These never appear on Personal range spells, hence the Casterpwner Spellguard of Tenser hilarity when you can bypass that.

[Optimystik]

But yeah, if he for some reason thinks it should be personal, and is willing to "houserule" it as such, there's not much one can do.

Find a literate DM?

[kamikasei]

Partly because it might help figure out how to convince him, and partly just because I'm curious, you might ask him to explain why he thinks "creature touched" can only mean "you, the caster".

It may also help to point him not just to the spell description but to the sections of the rules where ranges and targets are explained.

But yeah, if he for some reason thinks it should be personal, and is willing to "houserule" it as such, there's not much one can do.

This is true, and can be important. You might want to emphasize that it's certainly his right to change the spell if he wishes, and that you're not trying to say he's not allowed to do so, but that your problem is that you don't think the rules in the book say what he thinks they do (and that if he's not making a change in the full knowledge that it is a change, he may miss some consequence of the change that could come back to bite you both in the ass).

[dsmiles]

Partly because it might help figure out how to convince him, and partly just because I'm curious, you might ask him to explain why he thinks "creature touched" can only mean "you, the caster".

If "creature touched" can only mean "you, the caster," I wouldn't recommend casting any of the Inflict (insert severity here) Wounds spells.

[Ethdred]

Fly: this time it's personal

Sorry, I'll go now. I won't even make any comments about your DM and his personal touching :)

[Tyndmyr]

Thanks

He insists it's personal, but I'll try and convince him otherwise.

It's touch.

If he insists despite all reason that it is personal, grin gleefully, and point out this makes it eligible for persist, allowing you to be constantly flying. Always.

[Ryuuk]

Point him towards Overland Flight then. He can have his NPC's flying at all times and tha party will be able to share fly spells too.

[dsmiles]

It's touch.

If he insists despite all reason that it is personal, grin gleefully, and point out this makes it eligible for persist, allowing you to be constantly flying. Always.

Oooooooooo...

[Optimystik]

It's touch.

If he insists despite all reason that it is personal, grin gleefully, and point out this makes it eligible for persist, allowing you to be constantly flying. Always.

Just Extend Overland Flight and you can do that anyway. Or better yet, Floating Disk so you can sleep "on the wing."

[Person_Man]

It's theoretically possible that he's thinking of Overland Flight, which is Personal.

IIRC, there's also something like "mass fly" out there in one of the splat books, which lets you cast Fly on multiple targets (and by definition, couldn't be a Personal spell since it effects multiple targets).

[Lioness]

IIRC, there's also something like "mass fly" out there in one of the splat books, which lets you cast Fly on multiple targets (and by definition, couldn't be a Personal spell since it effects multiple targets).

I think that may be what's confusing him. Apparently mass fly is non-personal and fly is. I'll see what I can do on Sunday, but I'm willing to accept it as a houserule.

[ericgrau]

It may also help to show him all the other personal spells that say "personal" instead of "creature touched".

Or show him this:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverv...ions.htm#range

Or the Player's Handbook equivalent on the section on magic. All you need to know on spell descriptions.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Hit him over the head with an egg beater.

[Mercenary Pen]

I'm wondering whether this is your DM trying to deny you what could be a campaign breaking piece of utility?

Something to ask yourself as your next few sessions unfold (assuming your DM doesn't accede to RAW) is whether everything would have been easier if someone other than the party's arcane caster could have flown?

For example, is your DM throwing chasms at you that you need to get the entire party across without just re-preparing your spells and flying everyone across... Was there a situation where the unlikely happened and you could have really used having the party fighter up at ceiling height in a hurry?

Fly is a wonderful utility spell, but like many other utility spells, if the DM hasn't prepared for its full utility, it could make the difficult challenges he wants to throw at you ridiculously easy.

More to the point, if that's why the DM is trying to cnvince you fly doesn't work like that, the last thing he'll want to do is admit that this was the reason behind it, because if it were me, I'd feel like I were giving away parts of the plot by doing that...

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Problems and issues that can be rectified by 'ittin' 'im o'er tha 'ead wiff an eggbeata.

[Ormur]

If your DM is worried about you as a caster being overpowered then stopping you from sharing a good but non-broken spell with the rest of your teammates doesn't seem like the way to remedy it. Fly just lasts long enough for it to matter in fights and countering it shouldn't be to difficult. Your enemies can fly too, or make ranged attacks. There's no reason fly should be personal.

[Gralamin]

Are you sure he is just not trying to (without stating so) Houserule it so it is personal?

[Gorbash]

Just cast Mass Fly, then.

[Lioness]

Just cast Mass Fly, then.

I don't have mass fly ^_^

It's possible it was a campaign problem. Both times I've tried to use it have been times where we were meant to use logic to get ourselves out. Once when we had to construct something to get us up the top of the cliff, the other time when someone was about to fall off a cliff because of their own stupidity.

And I'm not hitting him over the head with an eggbeater; he's my boyfriend.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

And I'm not hitting him over the head with an eggbeater; he's my boyfriend.

He doesn't like that?

Well, you'll just have to find another means of persuasion.

[Temotei]

He doesn't like that?

Well, you'll just have to find another means of persuasion.

Ewwww...

[Pharaoh's Fist]

And I'm not hitting him over the head with an eggbeater; he's my boyfriend.

So withhold sex until he sees reason.

[Gralamin]

So withhold sex until he sees reason.

I'm pretty sure that is considered "Not playing fair". That said, if you are that far in your relationship, it is likely an excellent strategy.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I'm pretty sure that is considered "Not playing fair". That said, if you are that far in your relationship, it is likely an excellent strategy.

She gets to withhold sex, the other players get egg beaters. Seems fair to me.