[3.5] Dragon Shaman

[Vikazc]

Im playing in a 3.5 edition game and recently my character died. I chose to reroll as a Dragonshaman, and would like some help with reasonable optimization choices.

To give some background, our party is level 3. We consist of a Half Elf druid, with the variant that grants a bunch of monk abilities but loses wildshape. Hes very unoptimized, is in melee a lot, doesnt use spells much and is only just not acquiring an AC.

The second member is a human ranger. Hes fairly unoptimized as well as he is a new player to D&D. Hes somewhat focus'd on archery currently, and has a houseruled weak animal companion. A cat based off a half HD leopard i beleive.

My previous character was a cliched air mephit cloistered cleric focus'd on lightning related powers. Not optimized at all.

The game has some house rules, notably you start with 1.5 times your max HP at first level. All magic is temporary in nature, though magic weapons can be crafted, their duration of power is measured in years or decades at best. Most other reasonable houserules are in place, the standards to avoid abuse.

Our parties biggest problem so far was both a lack of support heals for endurance, and a lack of a real tank character/melee damager. Im hoping to somewhat fill this role with my new dragon shaman. He is a earth dwarf with reasonably good stats. everything above 12 except charisma. strength 18, con 16. I know dragon shaman are not very optimum overall, and I dont want to overshadow the party obviously, but our group is in need of some tank and spank ability. Is there anything I should/could do to make sure my dragon shaman is fairly tough?

Thanks!

[Asbestos]

Trying to get in before anyone suggests some sort of Dragonshaman 1/Whatever 19 build...

How much of your build do you want to remain Dragonshaman? 10%, 25%, 100%?

[Draz74]

Multiclass Crusader? Or at least take the Stone Power feat? (Both of these options require Tome of Battle.)

Why do you have such low Charisma? Dragon Shaman healing is based off Charisma. This makes me quite worried for your ability to be the party healer (taking over for a Cleric, no less).

Entangling Exhalation (Races of the Dragon) is a great feat for anyone with a breath weapon. Metabreath Feats also might be worth checking out (Draconomicon).

[Vikazc]

Im less concerned about the dragon shamans healing touch ability then the vigor aura. We have some basic houserules for combat that steal off 4th ed a little. After each combat you regain your con mod plus 2 hps for example, those assumed to be ones representing exertion. So its more a question of just keeping the party going then on demand healing, especially since on demand healing generally seems to suck.

as far as how much of my build should be dragon shaman, im not too particular but would like to keep the number of classes involved down to 1 or 2 additional.

thanks!

[Asbestos]

Entangling Exhalation (Races of the Dragon) is a great feat for anyone with a breath weapon. Metabreath Feats also might be worth checking out (Draconomicon).

I recall the first not working with the DS for some reason... or maybe its the Metabreaths that don't work with the DFA.

[Draz74]

I recall the first not working with the DS for some reason... or maybe its the Metabreaths that don't work with the DFA.

Yeah, Metabreaths don't work with the DFA (by RAW).

The DS's only problem with its breath weapon is that it really doesn't do all that much damage ...

[AirGuitarGod32]

I suggest multiclassing into Marshall. Auras outta the wazoo.

Eiter that, or take the Invocation Variant, then multiclass into Warlock. Eldritch Breath Weapon Anyone?

sorry if the ideas suck. I just survived a triple-spin-out on the highway @ 70mph.

[sonofzeal]

DFA + Draconic Aura gets you the Vigor effect, on a much more optimizable base. Dragon Shaman by itself... it's not really a melee class, and the breath isn't really strong enough, and it's not really a support/utility class either. Its best class features are available as feats if you're Dragonblooded. I'd go that route, myself.

[RagnaroksChosen]

entangling breath thing and the clinging meta breath is amazing...


I love dragon shamans. there alot of fun.. I always wish that had more skill points per level i think that would balance them out(like 4+int)

[Draz74]

More skill points would help ... a little bit.

I suggest multiclassing into Marshall. Auras outta the wazoo.

Near-worthless if you don't have a good Charisma bonus ...

Eiter that, or take the Invocation Variant, then multiclass into Warlock. Eldritch Breath Weapon Anyone?

These abilities don't combine ...

sorry if the ideas suck. I just survived a triple-spin-out on the highway @ 70mph.

Well, that would explain a lot. Ice? Didn't hit anything though?

DFA + Draconic Aura gets you the Vigor effect, on a much more optimizable base. Dragon Shaman by itself... it's not really a melee class, and the breath isn't really strong enough, and it's not really a support/utility class either. Its best class features are available as feats if you're Dragonblooded. I'd go that route, myself.

Technically, although the online version doesn't say anything about it, the list in Dragon Magic of Auras you can pick with the Draconic Aura feat is separate from the Dragon Shaman list, and it doesn't include Vigor. The best you'll get from that feat is Senses.

Besides, he wants sort of a tank, and DFA is not much good at that.

[sonofzeal]

Technically, although the online version doesn't say anything about it, the list in Dragon Magic of Auras you can pick with the Draconic Aura feat is separate from the Dragon Shaman list, and it doesn't include Vigor. The best you'll get from that feat is Senses.

Granted, but it's pretty easy to make the logical connection. Ask your DM; if it works, you're golden.

Besides, he wants sort of a tank, and DFA is not much good at that.

Last time I played a DFA, I was the most durable person in the party. Con is their primary attribute, and the NA bonus they get is better than the Dragon Shaman's. Past that you've got two paths...

Traditional path - ASF reducers (Mithral Twilight Chain Shirt) and magical defenses, with NA covering the gap to the really heavy stuff. Draconic Toughness might be an interesting one for a tank, but probably not optimal given its level.

Clever path - choose your invocations around the 24-hour duration ones, and bring on the fullplate. Nonproficiency penalties can suck your orbs of dragonkind since you don't care about attack rolls, and you'll likely have permanent Flight anyway for maneuverability. Your only risk is Dispel, but since your invocations are at-will it doesn't matter so much if it takes you a couple tries to get them going again.

[AirGuitarGod32]

More skill points would help ... a little bit.


Near-worthless if you don't have a good Charisma bonus ...


These abilities don't combine ...


Well, that would explain a lot. Ice? Didn't hit anything though?



Technically, although the online version doesn't say anything about it, the list in Dragon Magic of Auras you can pick with the Draconic Aura feat is separate from the Dragon Shaman list, and it doesn't include Vigor. The best you'll get from that feat is Senses.

Besides, he wants sort of a tank, and DFA is not much good at that.

1. True. Id say focus your top 3 into Cha, Con, and Str
2. I didnt mean literally.....I meant having both
3. Slick as snot + 70mph + missing mirror = three spins into the grass

[Gnaeus]

I am assuming that you don't have Tome of Battle. If you do, Dragon Shaman 1, Crusader x.

Otherwise, the biggest problem with dragon shaman is that it is weak on damage output. The solution in your party will be to multiclass with anything with a better damage output. Take 1 level of dragon shaman, Vigor aura, probably power and a non-combat aura like senses. Then take a class that gives melee damage output. Dragon Shaman 1/Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/Barbarian x will do fine in your party. So will Dragon Shaman 1/ Duskblade x. Power attack + Rage + 2 handed weapon + power aura + 18 strength will make you an excellent tank/melee damage in a party at that level of optimization. If you can, take the pounce variant barbarian from unearthed arcana.

[Vikazc]

I guess I hadn't really thought to much about the possible advantages of just taking one level to get the auras i liked, specifically vigor, and then branching outward for more damage. Ive honestly never been too big on the ToB, though I do own it. It is something I will consider, mostly though Im lookin for classes that will give me good staying power, without too much flashiness. I really am trying hard to avoid makin the other players feel left out. I want subtle strength if possible.

[sonofzeal]

I guess I hadn't really thought to much about the possible advantages of just taking one level to get the auras i liked, specifically vigor, and then branching outward for more damage. Ive honestly never been too big on the ToB, though I do own it. It is something I will consider, mostly though Im lookin for classes that will give me good staying power, without too much flashiness. I really am trying hard to avoid makin the other players feel left out. I want subtle strength if possible.

Crusader's still good for that. They have truly unmatched staying power, and only as much flashiness as you ask for. White Raven makes your allies stronger, and Devoted Spirit makes them healthier. Focus there, and nobody will feel left out.

[Gnaeus]

The problem as I see it is that your two goals are conflicting. "Tank and Spank" I read as a high damage character. Something that walks into combat and kills the bad guy. That kind of character will hog the spotlight if well built (and if the spotlight isn't taken by a better character concept, like a god caster).

If what you really want is a support role, that doesn't steal spotlight, you want a batman caster. Not necessarily a wizard, but something to really power up your teammates. Wizard, archivist, or bard are all good at this. So is crusader. Given the level of optimization in your party, you could still take a level of Dragon Shaman without crushing yourself, but it isn't generally as good as just another level of wizard or bard for more spells like haste, heroics or good hope.

[Thurbane]

Just for the record, I'm playing a level 12 Dragon Shaman, and I think the class is fine without multiclassing. It may not be ultra-optimized, but it certainly contributes to the party, and never feels like a hanger-on. I do fairly well as a tank and healer, and also a decent face man. YMMV.