Warblade or Swordsage[3.5]

[evil-frosty]

Just a thought exercise here but in a gestalt game where one side is Druid, what would be best for the other side, Swordsage or Warblade? I know this might depend on what you want the character to do but i am not thinking about that right now.

[Pluto]

Just a thought exercise here but in a gestalt game where one side is Druid, what would be best for the other side, Swordsage or Warblade? I know this might depend on what you want the character to do but i am not thinking about that right now.

Druids have high Wisdom, bad Reflex saves, heal spells and not much use for BA (natural weapons mean itinerative attacks don't matter).

They also would make incredible scouts if they could get Hide and Move Silently on their skill lists somehow.

[Yuki Akuma]

Warblade

+ 1/1 BaB
+ Balance, Climb, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (history), Knowledge (local), Martial Lore and Tumble as class skills
+ Access to Warblade-only Iron Heart discipline
+ Better maneuver recovery method
+ Bonus feats
- No change in saves
- Less maneuvers known than Swordsage

Swordsage

+ 2 more skill points
+ Balance, Climb, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (history), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (royalty and nobility), Martial Lore, Move Silently, Sense Motive and Tumble as class skills
+ Good Reflex save
+ Access to Swordsage-only Desert Wind, Setting Sun and Shadow Hand disciplines
+ More maneuvers and stances available
+ Can take "Adaptive Style" to switch out maneuvers on the fly
+ Wisdom bonus to AC
- No improved BaB
- Worst maneuver recovery mechanic


...So... depends what you want, really. Swordsage gives you a lot (especially with high Wisdom, as it adds to AC), but Warblade can be good if you want high BaB or a good maneuver recovery mechanic that doesn't require you to waste a feat.

[Eldan]

Well, the warblade gives you feats and better base attack. Makes you a good frontliner. However, the swordsage gives you wisdom to AC, which a druid can use well.

[Xefas]

I think I'd go for swordsage, personally. The wisdom to AC is damn good, as well as good reflex saves. Aside from that, though, I think the Druid negates much of the disadvantage of the swordsage's poor recovery mechanic, because they're also going to want to be casting a few spells here and there (via Natural Spell or otherwise) so whenever you're out of maneuvers, you still have things to do without necessarily having to burn a full-round action.

[Draz74]

Yeah, Swordsage. As a Druid, you won't be needing to recover maneuvers within an encounter anyway.

Maybe multiclass to Warblade for four levels for the BAB. (ToB classes multiclass well).

[deuxhero]

Unarmed Swordsage allows you to pull off a full attack AND use all your natural attacks as secondarys, you won't be wearing armor as a bear anyways.

[Lycanthromancer]

Unarmed Swordsage allows you to pull off a full attack AND use all your natural attacks as secondarys, you won't be wearing armor as a bear anyways.

My refutation of that argument:



If you have the right to bear arms, the right to arm bears, and are killing men with your bear hands, why not cover your bear arse with some armor while you're at it?

Expensive, yes, but heavy fortification and blur enhancements are quite probably worth it.

...which can be added to light armor, now that I think about it, which makes swordsage even better than monk for druids.

Hoorah!

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

Heh heh... bear arse.

+1 to swordsage. I think you get the better benefit. The 1/1 BAB is nice, and you get a swift recovery mechanic, but the swordsage bonuses outweigh the warblade bonuses.

If you put it together right, you could go Druid 20 // Swordsage X / Fighter 2 (feats and profs...) / Master of Nine and get access to Iron Heart discipline, which is the primary reason to go Warblade

The picture kinda betrays the Druid heritage... they can't wear metal armor. If your DM doesn't care about that, Mithril Breastplate is considered light armor, and therefore can be worn by a swordsage.

[deuxhero]

Though if he is dipping in another martial class for BAB, he gets armor anyways.

[Faleldir]

The picture kinda betrays the Druid heritage... they can't wear metal armor. If your DM doesn't care about that, Mithril Breastplate is considered light armor, and therefore can be worn by a swordsage.

Or you could wear a darkleaf breastplate. (Eberron campaign setting)

[Samb]

Everyone says that a swordsage has a bad recovery method, but the point is that you should so many readied manuvuers that recovery is not even an issue. Plus the fact that you will be casting as well, which makes it even less likely to run out of stuff to do.

Warblade does have full BAB going for it.

[AirGuitarGod32]

I second swordsage.

My concept goes something like this:

Shifter (The flying one)

Class: Swordsage//Druid 10/Weretouched Master 5/Bloodclaw Master 5

Stye: Tiger Claw w/ dabble in either Desert Wind or Diamond Mind

Weapons: Natural Weapons of form X

[Yuki Akuma]

Just in case it matters, only claws are discipline weapons for Tiger Claw, not other natural attacks.

[Eloel]

A initiator/druid is great, in theory. But you're still limited to 1 action/round, which means you have to choose between casting a spell (you have GREAT buffs) and initiating a maneuver (you have alot of those too)

[Yuki Akuma]

Well there is Quicken Spell. Or boosts.

[deuxhero]

You could be a Wildshape ranger (or wild shape mystic ranger)//Unarmed Swordsage. You keep light armor (and metal), full BAB without mutliclassing, though with Medium and small animals only (unless you take a feat to expand your options, like cyrohydra wildshape), that means no bears.

[AirGuitarGod32]

You could be a Wildshape ranger (or wild shape mystic ranger)//Unarmed Swordsage. You keep light armor (and metal), full BAB without mutliclassing, though with Medium and small animals only (unless you take a feat to expand your options, like cyrohydra wildshape), that means no bears.

I still say the weretouched bloodclaw master is the optimal combo, though wildshape ranger is a definate improvement.

That said, Id forgo the casting for most cases, wildshape into, as he suggested with one feat: Cryohydra, and unleash the untamed Full BAB and maneuver power of a Twelve-Headed Cryohydra of the Tiger Claw!!!

[sofawall]

I still say the weretouched bloodclaw master is the optimal combo

You're saying those two prestige classes are better than another 10 levels of Druid?

[AirGuitarGod32]

You're saying those two prestige classes are better than another 10 levels of Druid?

I never said that. I said in response to the Wildshape Ranger concept, this'd run quite smoothly.

[sofawall]

I never said that. I said in response to the Wildshape Ranger concept, this'd run quite smoothly.

But you said those two were optimal, and wildshape ranger adds to them, meaning they were optimal before wildshape ranger (don't ask me how that works, being optimal then getting better), meaning they are supposedly more optimal than Druid 20.

[Yuki Akuma]

You could be a Wildshape ranger (or wild shape mystic ranger)//Unarmed Swordsage. You keep light armor (and metal), full BAB without mutliclassing, though with Medium and small animals only (unless you take a feat to expand your options, like cyrohydra wildshape), that means no bears.

I beg to differ.

[Mongoose87]

But you said those two were optimal, and wildshape ranger adds to them, meaning they were optimal before wildshape ranger (don't ask me how that works, being optimal then getting better), meaning they are supposedly more optimal than Druid 20.

I think you're taking what he said too literally.

[Tavar]

If you go wildshape ranger, Master of Many forms just got much better. In fact, that plus warshaper or Natures Warrior might work pretty well.

[deuxhero]

I beg to differ.

Realized that black bears are only medium after I got quoted.

[evil-frosty]

Where is wildshape ranger found? I cant seem to find it in the SRD.

[Eloel]

Where is wildshape ranger found? I cant seem to find it in the SRD.

Here.

Blablabla

[Mongoose87]

Here.

Blablabla

That always struck me as a really nice tradeoff for Rangers.

[evil-frosty]

Thank You, one more question:When do they gain each ability? It doesnt say. Do i just assume at the same level of a druid or barbarian respectively?

[sofawall]

It does say when they get it. They get it as Druid or as Barbarian, respectively.