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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Mobility Fix (3.5)

    The complaints about not being able to move & attack (full attack that is, the only useful mode of attacking) except on Pounce or weird spells has been plenty, as most of you would know. So I propose a fix for that.

    Let the meleers get their full attack at any time during their movement, not necessarily at once, (so they can attack once, move to end, and do the rest of their attacks) if they move at half speed.

    Yep, easy as that.

    Also, here are a few feats changed to complement the new abilities.

    Prerequisites stay the same.

    Dodge; Gives blanket +1 Dodge AC. (only mentioned because it's the prereq for the next feats) If you have the Skirmish ability, you get +1 Dodge AC (for a total of +2) when Skirmish applies.

    Mobility; You don't provoke AoO for movement anymore. You still provoke on other stuff.

    Spring Attack; You can move at your full speed, instead of half speed, and still be able to full attack.


    Important Note: For the purposes of this fix, Flurry is considered to be a Full Attack.

    Also, Monks get the ability to choose Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack as their 1/2/6 lvl feats, yet they need to meet prereqs for these.


    Benefits of this fix;

    Monk abilities now actually help out each other, since at L20, you can move 45ft while flurrying, 90ft if you took the Spring Attack line.

    Fighter has more usable feats to get, and they're not nailed to ground to kill stuff now.

    This also works on ranged attacks, so a rogue (or ranger), can move out of cover, kick some arse, and move back into cover.

    Scouts benefit from Dodge, as it gives +2 AC. Their increased speed, full with Improved Skirmish feat, allows them to move the required 20ft AND full attack, to get their only useful way of damaging into the target.,


    Thoughts?

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Zeta Kai's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mobility Fix (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by ozgun92 View Post
    The complaints about not being able to move & attack (full attack that is, the only useful mode of attacking) except on Pounce or weird spells has been plenty, as most of you would know. So I propose a fix for that.
    I'm sorry, but I disagree with this premise. I find that iterative attacks often have no chance of hitting, & therefore, it is the full attack that is useless. Monsters of a certain CR can be difficult to hit for a party with an average ECL that matches, due to high AC, so even getting a hit with the first strike of a full attack isn't guaranteed. Then each attack iteration takes a -5 (or -2 if your doing it right), which drops the odds much further. In my games, usually only the fighter or the barbarian care about the FA's, & they don't usually need to strike on the move; charge in, smack down, then move on.

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    Mongoose87's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mobility Fix (3.5)

    I'm not sure how I feel about replacing Tumble with one feat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Ring of Evasion means never playing a monk with monk levels again. There is just no reason to dip that stuff. I know we're all about using every part of the buffalo here, but can we just admit that it's inedible?

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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Mobility Fix (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose87 View Post
    I'm not sure how I feel about replacing Tumble with one feat.
    You're replacing the DC25 full-speed tumble-thru-threathened with a feat (2, if you count Dodge as useless).

    You still have the tumble-thru enemy, reduce-falling-damage, free-stand-from-prone, +AC while defending etc. uses of Tumble.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mobility Fix (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    I'm sorry, but I disagree with this premise. I find that iterative attacks often have no chance of hitting, & therefore, it is the full attack that is useless. Monsters of a certain CR can be difficult to hit for a party with an average ECL that matches, due to high AC, so even getting a hit with the first strike of a full attack isn't guaranteed. Then each attack iteration takes a -5 (or -2 if your doing it right), which drops the odds much further. In my games, usually only the fighter or the barbarian care about the FA's, & they don't usually need to strike on the move; charge in, smack down, then move on.
    Personally, I think that at full BAB, your attack chain should look like 20/15/15/15. Penalties greater than five are just insane.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mobility Fix (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose87 View Post
    I'm not sure how I feel about replacing one feat with Tumble.
    Fixed it for you.

    Member of the Hinjo fan club. Go Hinjo!
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    imp_fireball's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mobility Fix (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose87 View Post
    I'm not sure how I feel about replacing Tumble with one feat.
    Yah that's the only thing I'm against.

    +4 dodge bonus against AoOs provoked from movement seems fine to me. And it preserves the verisimilitude of a skilled attacker facing off against an escapee having a better chance than a non-skilled.

    The final present argument is whether this really changes anything for uber charging barbarians and martials or gives the monk a chance with their sub-optimal BAB.

    One thing I like about this though, is that since spring attack and shot on the run (and anything that's similar) are acquired at 6th level, which is about the peek of realistic expectations for any hero (about the highest level of bad assery for anyone in real life), they can actually achieve something beyond simply running and making a shot - since in real life, such a feat can be achieved just from continuous practice in the martial art (and theoretically at 'level 1' since it doesn't make you better at anything else, such as shrugging off a wound or avoiding a danger).
    Last edited by imp_fireball; 2009-12-20 at 08:17 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mobility Fix (3.5)

    It's very situational, and even in that instance, it doesn't improve your AC by enough. This is why most people consider mobility to be a fairly useless feat. Unless you're getting spring attack. Then it's fine I guess.

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    Default Re: Mobility Fix (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Krazddndfreek View Post
    It's very situational, and even in that instance, it doesn't improve your AC by enough. This is why most people consider mobility to be a fairly useless feat. Unless you're getting spring attack. Then it's fine I guess.
    There's a lot of situational feats though. Most core feats suck anyway.

    Perhaps if D&D demanded more situations to do with fast movement, then it might matter more. As is, tumbling at half speed is fine because of this.
    Last edited by imp_fireball; 2009-12-20 at 08:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Mobility Fix (3.5)

    I had Dodge grant the Dex bonus as a dodge bonus (handy for high-Dexterity armored fighters, insane for high-Dex unarmored fighters) or simply increased it to +2 dodge depending on the game, Mobility grants another +1 dodge bonus per 5 ranks of Tumble (in addition to the nigh-useless +4 vs AoOs), and made it so Spring Attack enabled a full-speed move before and after the single attack (with its descendants adding another attack and another move into the sequence).
    My latest homebrew: Majokko base class and Spellcaster Dilettante feats for D&D 3.5 and Races as Classes for PTU.

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  11. - Top - End - #11
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    imp_fireball's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mobility Fix (3.5)

    Mobility grants another +1 dodge bonus per 5 ranks of Tumble
    That's a pretty nice addition.

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