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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    Hey everyone. I seem to remember someone mention that spells that don't allow spell resistance, such as the orb of spells being able to ignore antimagic fields. Is this true, and if so, can I get some info on where to find the ruling about it?

    Thanks in advance.
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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    The argument has nothing to do with spell resistance. It's about orbs being Conjuration (Creation) spells - the actual orb is non-magical, so shouldn't be supressed.

    An AMF has no effect on a wall of iron, after all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    "The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result."

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antimagicField.htm


    The orb spells are instantaneous conjurations.

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Myrmex View Post
    "The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result."

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antimagicField.htm


    The orb spells are instantaneous conjurations.
    It's funny, I've never seen that rule referenced in this argument.

    It would be so much more airtight if someone would cite it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    The argument has nothing to do with spell resistance. It's about orbs being Conjuration (Creation) spells - the actual orb is non-magical, so shouldn't be supressed.

    An AMF has no effect on a wall of iron, after all.
    I remember people saying that spell line was made to go past an anti-magic field. Something about being too unfair against wizards to be completly obsolete in an AMF, specially blasters.

    That's why they put the orb lines in the ... conjuration school? I got nothing.

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    It's funny, I've never seen that rule referenced in this argument.

    It would be so much more airtight if someone would cite it.
    Nor have, so I decided to double check the AMF spell.
    Last edited by Myrmex; 2009-12-20 at 07:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arakune View Post
    I remember people saying that spell line was made to go past an anti-magic field. Something about being too unfair against wizards to be completly obsolete in an AMF, specially blasters.

    That's why they put the orb lines in the ... conjuration school? I got nothing.
    Well, they wouldn't bypass the AMF if they were in any other school...
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    The Orb spells are Conjuration because Evocation, much like melee, can't have nice things. Well, except force effects. And Contingency. But still, Conjuration gets everything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thespianus View Post
    I fail to see how "No, that guy is too fat to be hurt by your fire" would make sense.

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    The Orb spells are Conjuration because Evocation, much like melee, can't have nice things. Well, except force effects. And Contingency. But still, Conjuration gets everything.
    And Miracle, but only if you have Arcane Disciple.

    And even then, you can replicate all of Evocation's nice things with three levels of Shadowcraft Mage and a heightened Silent Image.
    Last edited by Yuki Akuma; 2009-12-20 at 07:12 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    It's about orbs being Conjuration (Creation) spells - the actual orb is non-magical, so shouldn't be supressed.
    Why does the non-magical balls of fire deal more damage then fire then?

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gralamin View Post
    Why does the non-magical balls of fire deal more damage then fire then?
    It's very hot fire drawn from the Elemental Plane of Fire. That stuff burns.

    And maybe it's heavily compressed and thrown really hard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    Thanks guys. I was checking under Antimagic in the SRD under special abilities and couldn't find anything. You guys answered so fast I got my answer before even turning to the antimagic field spell. Thanks a ton.
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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashiel View Post
    Thanks guys. I was checking under Antimagic in the SRD under special abilities and couldn't find anything. You guys answered so fast I got my answer before even turning to the antimagic field spell. Thanks a ton.
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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    It's very hot fire drawn from the Elemental Plane of Fire. That stuff burns.

    And maybe it's heavily compressed and thrown really hard.
    Shenanigans. Being on the Plane of Fire only does 3d10 points of fire damage per round. The only mundane heat-related effect that does more damage than an Orb of Fire I can find is total immersion in lava, for 20d6 per round. Which is total immersion, not a little ball of fire.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thespianus View Post
    I fail to see how "No, that guy is too fat to be hurt by your fire" would make sense.

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    Shenanigans. Being on the Plane of Fire only does 3d10 points of fire damage per round. The only mundane heat-related effect that does more damage than an Orb of Fire I can find is total immersion in lava, for 20d6 per round. Which is total immersion, not a little ball of fire.
    You must admit that the Elemental Plane of Fire deals more damage than mundane Prime Material fire.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gralamin View Post
    Why does the non-magical balls of fire deal more damage then fire then?
    The real argument to make is that, while it is a non-magical ball of fire, it is not a non-magically propelled ball of fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    The Orb spells are Conjuration because Evocation, much like melee, can't have nice things. Well, except force effects. And Contingency. But still, Conjuration gets everything.
    Druids & Clerics get really, really awesome evocations.
    Last edited by Myrmex; 2009-12-20 at 07:34 PM.

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    Well, being on fire does 1d6 per round, but even when you're on fire it only covers so much of your body, and you can often still breathe. If there was some way to replicate the "Everything around you is made out of fire, including the air" aspects of the Plane of Fire on the Material, I believe it would have exactly the same effects as being on the Plane of Fire. In fact, one could argue that the Planar Breach line of spells does just this, though arguably it's overlaying one plane on top of another rather than transporting a surrounding layer of fire to the Prime Material.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Myrmex View Post
    Druids & Clerics get really, really awesome evocations.
    But spell school doesn't matter nearly as much to them, so they're immune to the "Conjuration win! Evocation lose!" rule.
    Last edited by SurlySeraph; 2009-12-20 at 07:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thespianus View Post
    I fail to see how "No, that guy is too fat to be hurt by your fire" would make sense.

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    Well, being on fire does 1d6 per round, but even when you're on fire it only covers so much of your body, and you can often still breathe. If there was some way to replicate the "Everything around you is made out of fire, including the air" aspects of the Plane of Fire on the Material, I believe it would have exactly the same effects as being on the Plane of Fire. In fact, one could argue that the Planar Breach line of spells does just this, though arguably it's overlaying one plane on top of another rather than transporting a surrounding layer of fire to the Prime Material.

    EDIT:


    But spell school doesn't matter nearly as much to them, so they're immune to the "Conjuration win! Evocation lose!" rule.
    The plane of fire is just "Burning Hot." Burning Hot does 3d10/round to everyone. It's the hottest environmental effect covered by the rules (outside of being in lava, I guess). It's in Sandstorm.

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    A reality made entirely of fire is "Burning Hot". Appropriate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    Compressed matter from the Elemental Plane of Sound? Even if it was, that doesn't explain how you can hold onto and throw a ball of sound without it dispersing without the use of magic. Then again, D&D kills enough catgirls, so perhaps I should just leave it alone.

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    Compressed matter from the Elemental Plane of Sound? Even if it was, that doesn't explain how you can hold onto and throw a ball of sound without it dispersing without the use of magic. Then again, D&D kills enough catgirls, so perhaps I should just leave it alone.
    Sonic energy comes from the Elemental Plane of Earth, if Complete Psionic is to be believed.

    I don't get it either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    That makes my head hurt.

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    Eh? I thought acid was the Elemental Plane of Earth, and sonic was the Plane of Air. Which would make marginally more sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thespianus View Post
    I fail to see how "No, that guy is too fat to be hurt by your fire" would make sense.

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    That makes... no sense.

    [edit]
    @ Yuki
    Last edited by Myrmex; 2009-12-20 at 07:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    No, Air is Electricity.

    Cold is Water, appropriately.

    Acid and Sonic are both Earth, says Complete Psionic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    Because the Plane of Earth gets all the nice things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thespianus View Post
    I fail to see how "No, that guy is too fat to be hurt by your fire" would make sense.

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    It gets the cute psionic elementals that use sonic energy to tunnel through solid rock, at least.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    Sonic energy comes from the Elemental Plane of Earth, if Complete Psionic is to be believed.

    I don't get it either.
    The worst part about this whole thing is that simply throwing a 20d6 rock at someone would make the most sense.

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    Surely Orb of Rock is the Sublime Chord's equivalent of Orb of Sound.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

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    Default Re: Antimatic Field vs No Spell Resistance?

    It actualy makes some sense, since waves travel a lot easier trough a solid hard enviroment than trough an empty enviroment. Earthquakes anyone?

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