3.5 Non-Epic Damage Round

[Nehh]

Our group's DM has offered us the chance to fight some monsters with higher HP than usual in return for extra EXP in our new campaign. We're making our builds now, and I know this DM well. Last time we tried this the first encounter was a Kitten with 1500 HP. We've managed to get him to tone down the encounters a little, but still...

Anyway, I was just wondering, what is the most damage possible in one round using a non-epic PC?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Our group's DM has offered us the chance to fight some monsters with higher HP than usual in return for extra EXP in our new campaign. We're making our builds now, and I know this DM well. Last time we tried this the first encounter was a Kitten with 1500 HP. We've managed to get him to tone down the encounters a little, but still...

Anyway, I was just wondering, what is the most damage possible in one round using a non-epic PC?

They've done infinite at 1, 4, 8 and 12, infinite at 13, and requiring scientific notation at level 20. Pick a level, pick a number, people can hit it.

[SurlySeraph]

I believe that would be the UberERcharger created by the fine people on the WotC CharOps boards. The thread was lost in their recent board changes, but you should be able to pull up a copy at the Internet Archive, here.

EDIT: Ah, wait, that isn't the mounted version. The version I linked "only" does 18,000 damage. The mounted version does damage that needs scientific notation to express, and even then it's extremely long. And I can't find any links to it.

@V: The mounted Uberercharger's damage is best expressed with up-arrow notation. Good enough?

[RebelRogue]

They've done infinite at 1, 4, 8 and 12, infinite at 13, and requiring scientific notation at level 20. Pick a level, pick a number, people can hit it.

Graham's number, then!

[Fortuna]

Faugh. You disgust me with your low expectations. I shall settle for nothing less than beth-0, thank you so very much.

[sofawall]

I believe that would be the UberERcharger created by the fine people on the WotC CharOps boards. The thread was lost in their recent board changes, but you should be able to pull up a copy at the Internet Archive, here.

EDIT: Ah, wait, that isn't the mounted version. The version I linked "only" does 18,000 damage. The mounted version does damage that needs scientific notation to express, and even then it's extremely long. And I can't find any links to it.

@V: The mounted Uberercharger's damage is best expressed with up-arrow notation. Good enough?

The current mounted uberercharger does enough damage that we can't, using home computers, calculate it.

[Fortuna]

This I must see. Show me the link, please?

[PhoenixRivers]

Also, it should be noted that Hulking Hurlers can reliably hit in the trillions of damage at level 20. Another gem from WotC Charop.

[Keld Denar]

Copy this script into a .m file and run it in MatLab for an aproximation of the damage that one of JaronK's Lightning Mace builds can do

Spoiler

Show

[totdmg,totswing]=function(numatt,avgdmg)
p=0;
while numatt > 0;
	numatt = numatt - 1; % reduces # of attacks each iteration
	p = p + 1;
	roll = 1+floor(rand*20);
	if roll > 8;
		roll = 1+floor(rand*20);
		if roll > 1;
			swing(p) = 2; % Change 2 to 3 or 4 if using higher crit multipliers
			numatt = numatt + 2; % Generate 2 attacks per crit
		else
			swing(p) = 1; % Noncrit
		end
	else
		roll = 1+floor(rand*20);
		if roll > 1;
			swing(p) = 1;
		else
			swing(p) = 0;
	end
end

% This creates an array of 0s, 1s, and 2s, which corresponds to misses, hits, and crits respectively.

totswing = length(swing);
% The length of the variable swing gives the total number of attack rolls made
% as the counter p increases at every iteration.

totdmg = sum(swing) * avgdmg;
% Summing swing will give us the total number of effective hits
% Hits count a 1 effective hit, crits count as 2 effective hits
% Multiplying avgdmg by the sum of hits will give total damage for the run

I've never run it, but I would be interested in seeing the results...its not a true simulation, given that the RNG isn't perfect, but its close enough that a couple dozen runs or so should show adaquate trending...

[Myrmex]

They've done infinite at 1, 4, 8 and 12, infinite at 13, and requiring scientific notation at level 20. Pick a level, pick a number, people can hit it.

Truly infinite, or arbitrarily large?

[Simba]

Infinite through infinite loops.

Like: 1-2 points of damage on your attack, never roll a 1 on a damage die per ability, so damage is always 2 (= max damage), roll damage again and add whenever you roll max damage...ad infinitum. that works with a gnome Crusader afaIk.

[Doc Roc]

Both arbitrarily high and truly infinite, actually.

[Temet Nosce]

This work? I forget whether it's actually the current record holder for highest non infinite damage though.

""a" = 10^10^232,610, then taken to the power of itself 31,999 times in succession."

Here's the thread.

[Emmerask]

Infinite through infinite loops.

Like: 1-2 points of damage on your attack, never roll a 1 on a damage die per ability, so damage is always 2 (= max damage), roll damage again and add whenever you roll max damage...ad infinitum. that works with a gnome Crusader afaIk.

the d2 crusader actually does not work ^^

The minor thing that can be argued about would be that you only treat the number as a 2(which infact you do not see second point) and the stance requires you to roll a 2 (maxmimum damage) which you have not done.

The second and absolutly sound one is that if you roll a one you increase it to one half to the maximum ie:
1 +1/2 = 1.5 in d&d though you allways round down it is still a one = no extra attacks

[Temet Nosce]

Somehow I entirely missed the part about a single PC, and also that you need advice on a practical scale. So, I'm gonna suggest checking out a Mailman build (which sounds excellent for this kind of thing) Mailman.

Similarly speaking you should probably consider dealing with these things without doing HP damage.

[kamikasei]

The second and absolutly sound one is that if you roll a one you increase it to one half to the maximum ie:

I believe you're thinking of Luck Devotion, whereas the 1d2 Crusader uses Imbued Healing (Luck).

[Radar]

Persisted (through a rod or something) Creeping Cold, while not optimised, has some strange appeal to me.

Ubercharger on any level of optimisation is a good choice, because he will force many difficult Fort saves against massive damage regardles of creatures actual HP.

Ability damage is another way, to circumvent the problem. Putting any of the stats to 0 is game over. The most dangerous spell of this sort is Shivering Touch (as far as i know). It's a touch spell tough (as name says), so has some drawbacks, unless one can change it into a ranged touch attack spell (Reach Spell metamagic, or one of Archmage's high arcana).

Level drain is almost as good as ability damage (almost, because stats don't rise as fast as HD with levels). For that, Enervation is by far the most popular spell. It's a ray right out of the box, so easier to apply to any target (unless it has a really high Dex score).

Faugh. You disgust me with your low expectations. I shall settle for nothing less than beth-0, thank you so very much.

There is at least one method to go up to beth-1. The one, i'm aware of involves throwing Twinned, Sanctum Arcane Fusions from within other Arcane Fusions (by using enough metamagic reducers).
If one settles for beth-0, then Arcane Fusion and Sanctum Spell, is all, that is needed. Uses one spell known and one specific feat, so it's easy to fit into any otherwise reasonable sorcerer build as an emergancy plan.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Truly infinite, or arbitrarily large?

The level 13 one is arbitrarily large. The others are infinite. At level 20, it's closer to calling the Ackerman function with Graham's Number: Massively large, but there are numbers bigger than it.

[term1nally s1ck]

Note that your DM will know how much damage you do, and scale the challenges appropriately. Get an arbitrarily large damage character, or he'll just overpower them.

[Sinfire Titan]

I believe that would be the UberERcharger created by the fine people on the WotC CharOps boards. The thread was lost in their recent board changes, but you should be able to pull up a copy at the Internet Archive, here.

EDIT: Ah, wait, that isn't the mounted version. The version I linked "only" does 18,000 damage. The mounted version does damage that needs scientific notation to express, and even then it's extremely long. And I can't find any links to it.

@V: The mounted Uberercharger's damage is best expressed with up-arrow notation. Good enough?

Prior to the errata's attempted nerf, Chuck managed to outdamage the Ubercharger build.

[konfeta]

Note that your DM will know how much damage you do, and scale the challenges appropriately. Get an arbitrarily large damage character, or he'll just overpower them.

I am reasonably certain that no normal DM will survive getting their precious creation hit with damage dwarfing the Graham's Number without voluntarily committing themselves into a psychiatric ward.

[Sinfire Titan]

I am reasonably certain that no normal DM will survive getting their precious creation hit with damage dwarfing the Graham's Number without voluntarily committing themselves into a psychiatric ward.

Your sanity adjusts once you realize this is the only thing a noncaster can do to contribute once the casters realize how powerful their spells really are.