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Thread: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
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2009-12-23, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
Hey all, first off let me say that I'm posting this rather than a heavy search campaign because I'm away for the holidays and internet is limited in both bandwidth and time.
Anyways, I am playing in a campaign soon and I wanted to make a psychic warrior. I like being good, and so some degree of optimization would be nice.
I have access to most books either through my collection of the DM's, and he's fairly lenient about what books are allowed in his campaigns.
Anyways, I think my biggest gaps in knowledge are in feats and items (OK pretty much anything non SRD). What will help my character the most? We're starting at level 5, which gives us 5 feats and 9000gp for items.
Any hints for character creation would be great, along with strategies etc.Last edited by Overshee; 2009-12-23 at 05:14 PM.
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2009-12-23, 05:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
Power Attack, Knowledge Devotion, and Martial Study are all pretty good in the way of feats. You may also consider Expanded Knowledge to net yourself another (off class) power.
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2009-12-23, 05:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
I tentatively picked out: Combat Expertise, Psicrystal Affinity, Psionic Body, Psionic Meditation, and Psionic Weapon as they all seem pretty good.
Psicrystal is primarily in preparation for Expanded Knowledge because I think I'd be able to metamorph my crystal into a beastie, or mount. (BTW, I am using a weapon in this build I think [unless there's a better reason not to], what forms via metamorphosis would be good for using a weapon with)
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2009-12-23, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
Combat Expertise = not good, unless you're getting it for another feat, like Improved Trip. You are better off just grabbing concealment (Concealing Amorpha) or using Expanded Knowledge for a power to boost your AC.
Psicrystal + Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis) isn't something you can get until level 13, at least. Picking up just a Psicrystal at level 3 won't be very beneficial, unless you're grabbing it for other uses.
Psionic Meditation is good if you're using the focus for something (such as Psionic Weapon). Deep Impact is handy against creatures like Dragons, but that is a lesser concern. Cleave is useful at low levels, although you won't get much use out of Great Cleave.
Expansion and Psionic Lion’s Charge are two of the better Psychic Warrior powers - make yourself bigger and full attacks after movement.
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2009-12-23, 05:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
Psionic Body isn't doing you any good. Extra HP can easily be gained through boosting your Con score, and it saves you a feat slot. Combat Expertise is also similiarly worthless, as most things will be hitting you anyhow.
I recommend using Expansion to good ends, using things like Combat Reflexes to lockdown the opposition.
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2009-12-23, 06:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
OK, so drop CE, and PsiCA.
Psi Meditation is for Psi Weapon. I'll pick up cleave and powerattack, filling what I dropped.
I'll drop psionic body, that leaves me a feat to pick out.
As for powers, I chose: Expansion, Force Shield (I need AC...), Dissipating Touch (enhanceable touch attack seems worth it), body adjustment, dissolving weapon.
6th level I'll get Psionic Lion's Charge (don't actually need it till 8th level, I don't think), and at 7th greater concealing amorpha (the pp difference is so low that I don't think it's worth getting the lesser version earlier)
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2009-12-23, 06:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
I'd skip cleave, as it's one of the most situational feats in core. It only triggers when you kill a monster and there's an adjacent target you can attack afterwards.
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2009-12-23, 06:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
Dissipating Touch? It'll be more use to you than a Psion, but remember that you have naturally low PP. You can't be spending 10 PP each round without running out quickly.
Vigor is also very handy. 5 x PP spent, lasting 1 min/level? That's better returns than Body Adjustment, which only heals 1d12 for every two PP spent. Still, Body Adjustment can help when your hurt, while Vigor can only help beforehand.
Greater Concealing Amorpha is 1 round/level, while Concealing Amorpha is 1 minute/level. Cheaper, too. If you can get an item to grant additional miss chance, even better.
Remember that Dissolving Weapon is only good for one successful hit with the weapon. Not that you can use it after one round anyways. I wouldn't recommend both this and Dissipating Touch. (The touch attack deals better damage at this point - 1d6/PP rather than 4d6 + 1d6/2 PP. That's 5d6 for 5 PP and only better for Dissipating Touch.)
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2009-12-23, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
I'm gonna be large, so I can reach many more squares (reminder to self: combat reflexes as suggested for that last feat), I also think that there's a fair chance of a kill using my 5d6+ (3d6 large greatsword + 2d6 psi weapon + possible 4d6 from dissolving weapon + possible 2d6 from deep crystal). Granted I can't spend pp on dissolving weapon and deep crystal that often in a fight but still.
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2009-12-23, 07:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-12-23, 07:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
That alone is only about 35 damage average. A standard fighter ought to be close to matching this when all is said and done, plus full attacking. Try not to have to focus on using PP to increase your damage and just boost your regular damage to put the fighter to shame.
When you can do it, Expanded Knowledge: Metamorphasis will open many doors and allow you to get rid of Expansion (or, better yet keep it for even nastier combos) and polymorph into a Furbolg or something else with outrageous strength (War Troll maybe?).
Try to spend many of your feats on battlefield control. Having Power Attack, Shock Trooper, and Leap Attack could be of great benefit as well.
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2009-12-23, 08:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
How would you recommend doing this besides expansion for extra damage (1 1/2 str modifier once I have expansion on will be 8 extra damage).
That won't occur till level 13 or so. I'll look for ridiculous monsters then I guess. (Too bad you cant turn into an outsider, although that would just make me ridiculous.)
Would you recommend those feats over PsiMed, PsiWeap, (power attack,) Cleave, and Combat Expertise?
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2009-12-23, 08:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
Psionic Meditation and Psionic Weapon will not be worth much to you, since you shouldn't be blowing your focus for anything. Also, Psionic Weapon is good on one attack only, and, for the most part in 3.5, if you ain't doing a full attack (or using a spell or similar ability), you ain't doing much.
Cleave and Combat Expertise, as has already been mentioned, are both pretty much jank and only good for qualifying for PrCs or something similar. The AC race falters, considering most threats have much, much, much higher to-hit values or go for touch AC instead. Miss chances solve that problem.
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2009-12-23, 08:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
OK, I understand that all. Thanks for the explanation.
So now jumping attacks to deal massive amounts of damage has been suggested. Is this the best course of action? What other feats would be worth picking up? (On the other hand I don't wanna be a total one trick pony. It also incurs massive AC penalties, which seems to make it a lot less worth it if there are two enemies next to each other. You can kill one, but the other is gonna cream you the next turn.)
edit: Also, man this makes me feel like a noob. I hope I'm not frustrating you guys by not knowing much/anything about this stuff.Last edited by Overshee; 2009-12-23 at 08:26 PM.
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2009-12-23, 08:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
Going the Ubercharger route is one way to playing a tank. Of course, it's more howitzer than tank, but you get the point. Another option is to grab a reach weapon, preferably the infamous spiked chain, combat reflexes, stand still, and improved trip. When anyone gets near you, you slap em with the chain, trip them, and then wail on them. They try to get away? You keep them from doing so.
Don't worry about it. There are a lot of pitfalls to realizing what's effective in DND. If you want, I may be able to find a guide relevant to your interests that can explain it better than I.
EDIT: Here's the link. The guide lists several different builds, each with their own schticks. Pick which ever appeals to you the most.Last edited by Thrice Dead Cat; 2009-12-23 at 08:33 PM.
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2009-12-23, 09:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
I guess I wanna go with:
Two Hand Weapons
1: Power Attack
1: Cleave
1: Furious Charge/Reckless Charge
2: Up the Walls
3: Dodge
5: Leap Attack
6: Improved Bull Rush
8: Shock Trooper
9: Combat Expertise
11: Karmic Strike
12: Combat Reflexes
14: Leap of the Heavens
15: Expanded Knowledge-Schism or metamorphosis
17: Psychic Meditation
18: Psionic Weapon
20: Deep Impact
A sample design, this build enables you to make best use of Leap Attack by letting you fill it's requisite activation easily via Up the Walls. Later on Leap of the Heavens is used so you can just jump straightaway if there is nothing available to "Up the Walls." You get to Shock Trooper as early as possible to get best bang for your buck with Power Attack and Leap attack, and round it out with Karmic Strike/ Combat Reflexes line for additional firepower. Expanded Knowledge-Schism or Metamorphosis will insure your longevity, and Psychic Meditation line rounds you out to get to Deep Impact at the End. If Deep Impact comes to late for you just try subbing it in earlier and moving leap of the heavens to the end. Just make sure you grab a deep crystal weapon!
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2009-12-23, 09:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
Threatening a lot of squares isn't very useful when you can't do something with it. A Spiked Chain-wielding tripper can do a lot with all his AoOs and his trip attempts. A random guy with a reach weapon just gets a single free hit before enemies close in, and even then if they're Medium or smaller, and even then no more often than once a turn and in reality a lot less frequently. Sure, if you took Flaws and grabbed Combat Reflexes and Improved Trip, then you'd have some reach weapon fun (EWP: Spiked Chain wouldn't hurt too but I doubt you could fit that in).
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2009-12-23, 09:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-12-24, 08:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
You seem to have an emphasis on AC. AC is OK, but try not to over do it. Having around 25-30 AC is usually much more than enough. Try to increase your miss chance with your concealment abilities and/or a ring of blinking.
Sorry to necro your question from earlier... That 35 average damage we discussed... Yes, Expansion is much more well spent PP. You can opt to do a one shot 35 average damage hit... Or you can opt to increase your base damage, though mildly, on every hit and control the field a little better because of your reach.
I'd also recommend the ACF from Mind's Eye that lets you have a Soul Bound weapon to help cut some of your WBL costs due to weaponry.
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2009-12-24, 09:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
I just came in here to suggest this. The ACF is available here.
You get the Soulknife's main class feature as a bonus to your class - sad for them, awesome for you You can also add all these enhancements to your blade simply by spending power points when you manifest it, and your blade will even work (RAW, with all enhancements intact) in an Antimagic/Null Psionics field if you make a will save once in awhile.Last edited by Optimystik; 2009-12-24 at 09:08 AM.
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2009-12-24, 04:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
I don't think it's gonna be that high. My dex isn't gonna be great (Emphasis on will and str before dex), and I don't want to have to much of an armor check penalty because I think I'm gonna be able to power my own leap attacks with jump, getting rid of need for up the walls (or replacing it with an artifact, if I can). What armor would you recommend I get. I can boost defenses further with concealing amorpha and force shield, but that takes valuable time (I feel like I'm gonna miss 2 rounds of combat every encounter at least from buffing myself).
How are you talking about boosting damage? The reach is nice, although I'd need combat reflexes (which still isn't giving me that many AoO's, because of my lacklustre dex bonus...). I realize that there's more to battlefield control than this (tripping especially), but I am having trouble deciding between 2-handed maven and tripping fiend.
Awesome option, but its yet more time before I'm actually in combat.
It seems like I'd be casting at least Call Weaponry (1 round) and Expansion (1 standard action), and possibly concealing amorpha and force shield, just to prep if I took this option. Expansion can be swifted, but it's super expensive (+6pp) so I'm not sure that's a good option.
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2009-12-24, 04:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-12-24, 05:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
A neat trick if you do get a PsiCrystal is to manifest Vigor, share it with your PsiCrystal, and then manifest Share Pain on it. This splits damage evenly between you and it, and with the extra temp HP from Vigor, allows you to absorb a TON of damage.
Another thing to keep in mind, that a lot of people forget, is that when you Expand, your Dex goes down. That affects your ability to make AoOs with Combat Reflexes. Remedied late game by a +dex item, but still something to keep in mind when picking your starting ability scores.
Have you considered a King of Smack build? Manifesting Claws of the Beast and taking feats like Expansion, Improved Natural Attack, and Rapid Strike to make hard hitting natural attacks your game? Even at level 5, you should be able to pull out some 2d6 Claws, and by level 6 (assuming you take INA at that level) you'll be even stronger.
Alternatively, there is the Tashalatoran King of Smack, using the Tashalatora feat in Secrets of Sarlona (an Eberron book). It combines your Monk levels with any Psionic class. Monk2/PsyWar3 would give you the unarmed capabilities of a Monk5. Expand and Improved Natural Attack and your Monkly UAS damage will increase faster than any weapon damage could.
You can also be a fairly competant Grappler. Scorpion's Grasp (Sandstorm) with either King of Smack build is pretty awesome. Manifest Grip of Iron and Expansion (or better yet, use Link Power in Complete Psion to get both at the same time) and you get a +9 on your grapple check right there. Combine that with the +4 from Improved Grapple and whatever your base Str is, and you'll be able to huggle foes to death. After that, find some way to get Constrict (Shape Soulmeld: Kraken Mantle + Open Lesser Chakra or Martial Study: Mountain Hammer + Martial Stance: Crushing Weight of the Mountain) and your foes will have the life crushed from them by your massive crushing power.
Yea, Link Power, its in Complete Psion. You manifest 2 powers. One costs regular cost and is in effect immediately, the 2nd costs 1.5x the PP, and comes into effect at the start of your next turn for no action cost.
Its great with Grip of Iron, since it only costs 1 PP and can't be augemented. Expansion for 3 PP (for the Extend) and link to Grip of Iron for another 2 PP. When you start your next turn ready to grapple a fool, you'll have a +9 effective bonus over whatever you had the previous round.
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2009-12-24, 08:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
This would require the psicrystal feat and I'm feat-starved enough as is...
Very true. I still think str and wis are more important than dex, though, would you agree?
In the requirements it has "Monastic Training (psionic class)," but I can't find reference to that anywhere else. What does this mean?
Never really found grapplers cool, and while I understand I'm asking for optimization I'd rather go with the smackdown :)
Ooh, this looks super useful. I'll try to pick it up.
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2009-12-24, 08:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
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2009-12-24, 09:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
Sigh, another feat needed to get to it >.<
I only have 5 feats to start with, still don't know what to do. A lot of the builds I have found are for level 20's and aren't really all they're cracked up to be at lower levels.
Will I really be better with unarmed than with a huge freakin sword and all the str damage that entails?
EDIT: to make this easier, let's list ways to improve unarmed damage:
Claws of the Beast
Improved Unarmed Strike/Natural Attack (are these the same? Seen both on the net)
Superior Unarmed Strike.
The amulet of mighty fists (even better The Necklace of Natural Attack)
Gauntlets (but these wouldn't stack with claws of the beast, right?)
Monk's Belt
Greater Magic Fang + Permanancy
battlefist
I honestly have no clue how these can work together and stack though.Last edited by Overshee; 2009-12-24 at 09:50 PM.
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2009-12-25, 01:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
OK so Improved Natural Attack helps claws but the Unarmed Strikes don't.
Besides expansion and spells which enhance the size of your weapons, such as mighty whallop, it seems hard to increase claw damage.
Revised powers list is:
Expansion,
Claws of the Beast,
Force Screen
Body Adjustment
Psionic Lion's Charge
As for feats, I'm back to square one.
Improved Natural Attack(bab +4)
Imp Init seems handy,
Battlejump (double damage if I jump 5 feet down? That's only a DC20 check!)
Combat Reflexes (IDK about this one, dex is low with expansion up)
Twinned Power
Psicrystal Affinity (+2 init)
Weapon Finesse, switching str and dex, fixes combat reflexes and boosts AC)
Rapidstrike(bab of +10)
Also, still have 9K to spend.Last edited by Overshee; 2009-12-25 at 01:15 AM.
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2009-12-25, 01:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
What race? any flaws allowed? LA buyback?
You should listen to everyone on vigor, share pain, psicrystal combo. Forget body adjustment, this combo will make you a tank. Get it and love it. This is a must for any manifesting class, even psions and wilders.
You never specified a theme, one minute I see psi-charger, now I see king of smack. You have to make up your mind because you can't make both.
Some combos I like:
1) PSV make you a tank and you need it for every build.
2) Deep impact+Power attack: you don't need shock-trooper to hit on a max'd PA with deep impact so it will save you feats for your uber charger.
3) Linked power (hustle to hustle) and psionic mediation: Hustle gives you a move action, psionic mediation lets you use that move action to regain your focus to do other things with (like deep impact). The second hustle doesn't count as an action, so you are free to manifest it again (and link it). So with 3 move actions in one round you can use it as you see fit.
4) You need to get both schism and metamorphosis.
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2009-12-25, 01:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
I found athasian human in a dragon magazine and DM approved it. +2 to any 2 abilities, a bunch of extra pp, and some free powers from the psion list.
K, well I have psicrystal in feats, I guess I could drop force screen and body adjustment and pick up vigor and share pain.
I know, I know. I have decided on a smacker, unless I get a good reason not to. I put semi-optimized in the title because I don't want to be ridiculously cheap, just better than everyone else (there's a bit of a running competition for most effective in my group, however that's decided amoungst us). I'm not doing a tripper for this reason.
1) Added
2) I'm going smack
3) I will try to pick up hustle next level, and psi med if I can fit it in feats.
4) I will. Earliest I can do so is level 13 though I believe.
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2009-12-25, 02:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Semi-Optimized Psychic Warrior
Okay I have some more I just thought of:
5) Astral construct is great for any build as it increases the number of attack you get, but not needed.
6) Astral construct and metamorphosis can be gotten via an ACF called mantled psywar, which allows for AC at level 1 and metamorph at level 10. Also get metamorphic transfer for Su abilities.
7) King of smack usually uses Elan, but consider Synad who are also aberrations but they get +2 on all will saves (pretty much) and a built in schism right from the get go, kalashtar is worth looking into as well to turn into some crazy stuff.
8) Gear: boots of temporal acceleration is a must. Torc of power preservation is good too since you have puny PP pool. Try for the SRD/XPH version, but if he only allows the MIC version buy a bunch of them. Also try to boost WIS as much as possible.
9) Speaking of puny PP pool, you will be using all your spare feats on psionic talent. The bonuses add up.
10) If using ToB maneuvers, consider psionic mediation+psychic renewal. Psychic renewal allows for you to expend your focus to regain a used maneuver. With the linked power hustle trick you will always be hitting them with your deadliest attack.
11) Needless to say, keep your concentration as high as possible. Change your psicrystal personality to single-minded. That will be much more helpful in the long run.