Rogue/Fighter/Swashbuckler 3.5

[Soranar]

Rogue 3/Fighter 4/Swashbuckler 13


Race: Human
Alignment: any
BAB: 19
Sneak attack: 8d6

min stat requirement: DEX 16


FEATS
1 Rogue TWF,able learner
2 Rogue
3 Rogue Improved Buckler Defense
4 Fighter weapon focus kukri
5 Swashbuckler
6 Swashbuckler Daring Outlaw
7 Fighter Improved two-weapon fighting
8 Fighter
9 Fighter Weapon specialization kukri, Daring Warrior
10 Swashbuckler
11 Swashbuckler
12 Swashbuckler Greater Weapon focus kukri
13 Swashbuckler
14 Swashbuckler
15 Swashbuckler Greater weapon specialization kukri
16 Swashbuckler
17 Swashbuckler
18 Swashbuckler Greater Two weapon fighting
19 Swashbuckler
20 Swashbuckler


Any suggestions to boost this build?

[Dusk Eclipse]

A 1 level dip into either warblade (BAB) or Swordsage (Skills) to get the stance blood in the water, it gets you increased bonus on crits that stack and with the amount of hits and possibly crits you will be getting.....

Forget the weapon focus and weapon specialization they are not worth (except as prerequisites) and consider Improved critical Kukri)

[Darrin]

Any suggestions to boost this build?

I'm not sold on Improved Buckler Defense. There are several other methods to get a shield bonus that doesn't burn up one of your feats (animated shield, ring of force shield, dastana/chahar-aina, etc.).

I see Daring Outlaw, but no sneak attack feats? How do you want to tackle creatures that are immune to sneak attack? Penetrating Strike (Dungeonscape), I would assume... not a lot of room for Dragonfire Strike.

Any room for Craven?

Two other sneak-attack feats I consider must-haves:

Staggering Strike (CAdv), every time you hit with sneak attack damage, target must make a Fort save vs. damage total or staggered (can only take one standard or move action) for one round.

Undo Resistance (FCII), every time you hit with a cold iron weapon and do sneak attack damage, reduce target's Spell Resistance by 1 per sneak attack die. Much more important in higher levels when every creature and their dog has SR.

[Cespenar]

Consider Dervish or even Tempest, instead of full 13 levels of Swashbuckler. Or Invisible Blade.

Dervish and Invisible Blade is from Complete Warrior, Tempest is from Complete Adventurer, I believe?

[D-naras]

Try to make room in there for a level of warblade for the aforementioned stances and maneuvers, lose improved buckler defense and get telling blow from PHBII to get sneak attack whenever you crit. For a buckler replacement get gnomish dueling cloak from races of stone which you can get profficiensy with if you exchange your tower shield proffieciensy, using the rules in the same book. Check the feats section. And since you bothered with the weapon focus line get Slashing Weapon Mastery from PHBII for an extra +2 to hit and damage. Finally to sneak attack constructs and undead use the weapon augmentation crystals from MIC, they are a cheap and easy way to fix that problem.

Cool build btw! I would play it for sure.

Edit: Actually Weapon Specialization is a prerequisite for Daring Warrior and thats a cornerstone of the build. I would still lose the greater versions and get surely Slashing Weapon Mastery and either Improved Critical or Power Critical in their place.

[Soranar]

Alright let's see

are Warblade and Swordsage prestige classes or base? Cause my campaign could very well continue into epic levels so I wouldn't want a xp hit for a dip

blood in the water is great though

I can't find penetrating strike or dragonfire strike, are those epic feats?

I rely on weapon specialization (and buffs from my companions) to deal with crit immune critters since rogues are always in trouble with those anyway (although mine not as badly)

I think I could switch improved buckler defense for craven though

and I'm certain my mage would be happy if I took the lower resistance feat

Dervish and Tempest are not permitted by my DM...

telling blow could definitely replace Improved buckler defense

can you use a Gnome Battle Cloak and use a weapon in the off hand?

(thought you had to wield it like a shield)

again the crystals would be a great idea if my DM didn't ban them...

again, I prefer not focusing on crit/sneak reliant feats since so many things are immune to them at higher levels (and my DM just loves banning anything that removes those immunities, he already warned me that he would only let me take the epic feat that gives you half your sneak damage like in NWN2, if we ever get there)

[Dusk Eclipse]

Alright let's see

are Warblade and Swordsage prestige classes or base? Cause my campaign could very well continue into epic levels so I wouldn't want a xp hit for a dip

blood in the water is great though

I can't find penetrating strike or dragonfire strike, are those epic feats?

I rely on weapon specialization (and buffs from my companions) to deal with crit immune critters since rogues are always in trouble with those anyway (although mine not as badly)

I think I could switch improved buckler defense for craven though

and I'm certain my mage would be happy if I took the lower resistance feat

Dervish and Tempest are not permitted by my DM...

telling blow could definitely replace Improved buckler defense

can you use a Gnome Battle Cloak and use a weapon in the off hand?

(thought you had to wield it like a shield)

again the crystals would be a great idea if my DM didn't ban them...

again, I prefer not focusing on crit/sneak reliant feats since so many things are immune to them at higher levels (and my DM just loves banning anything that removes those immunities, he already warned me that he would only let me take the epic feat that gives you half your sneak damage like in NWN2, if we ever get there)

Swordsage and Warblade are Base classe, bad for you, though you can get them through a pair of feats (Martial study and Martial Stance) all from ToB

Dragonfire strike is an Alternative Class feature from Dragon Magic IIRC
Penetrating Strike is also an Alternative class feature from Dungeonscape (half SA to SA immune critters instead of trap sense).


......
Wait a second you need an epic feat to deal HALF damage to crit/SA immune things???
as I said before you can deal 1/2 damage with an ACF that you get on level 3???

[Soranar]

yeah, not with my DM

I was a bit too creative with a halfling slinger during the last campaign so now he nerfed my characters to prevent me from killing everything (inner munchkin just begging to be released... )

[bosssmiley]

Rogue 3/Fighter 4/Swashbuckler 13

Any suggestions to boost this build?

-10 levels of Swashbuckler (it's a 3-level class)
+10 levels of Warblade (your fightan magic stacks with half your non-warblade levels)

Remind me, can warblades take that "Grar, I's a tigger" themed fighting school which has kukri as a chosen weapon?

@vvv: Daring Outlaw - swashbuckler stacks with rogue for sneak attack damage? *meh* Swashie is a 3 level class for Int to AC...

[SurlySeraph]

...
Why yes, Warblades can use the Tiger Claw discipline.

[deuxhero]

-10 levels of Swashbuckler (it's a 3-level class)
+10 levels of Warblade (your fightan magic stacks with half your non-warblade levels)

Remind me, can warblades take that "Grar, I's a tigger" themed fighting school which has kukri as a chosen weapon?

But Warblade doesn't work with daring outlaw.


As for the build, nix the weapon focus. +1 damage or +1 accuracy is not something you spend a feat on. Hell Craven gives you 1 extra damage PER SA DIE, it's way better than the focus tree (Everything is). Hell, taking up an exotic weapon (say... spiked chain? With RoD you get weapons that are light and have higher damage than a Kukri but the same threat range. One can even be used 2 handedly) is better IN CORE.

[Draz74]

Wow, there's a lot of bad advice being thrown around on this thread.

People saying 13 levels of Swashbuckler is a waste -- that it's a 3-level class -- need to get with the times and learn what Daring Outlaw does. Daring Warrior is a pretty sad feat, though, since Weapon Specialization & co. really aren't very good, so you could drop the Fighter levels.

Telling Blow is a terrible feat (barring specific long-range crossbow sniper builds, and possibly solo characters). Dervish is so-so and Tempest is terrible; odd that your DM would ban those but allow Tome of Battle stuff.

Warblade and Swordsage are base classes, so you would have to worry about XP penalties. You can pick up Blood in the Water with two feats (or a feat and a 3k item), though. (At which point, if the campaign goes epic, you could look at various PrCs in Tome of Battle, particularly Bloodclaw Master.)

Craven is definitely a great suggestion.

[Soranar]

yeah I finally found the ToB

my DM would probably not allow anything of that book ,at all

everything I read just scream Munchkin... too bad ;)

and , as mentioned above, the whole point of the build is to use daring Outlaw for sneak attack damage (making swashbuckler much more than a simple 3 level class)

able learner isn't there for show either, I'm the group's rogue

thus 10 level Warblade wouldn't help

taking 2 feats could work to get blood in the water, I could drop the greater specialization (or the whole fighter part) and concentrate on crits (swashbucklers get pretty mean crit abilities at high levels) but again this would reduce my BAB bonuses and my specialization damage

I didn't know you could turn a spiked chain into a light weapon , that would be nice

one thing for sure I'm dropping the buckler feat for Craven, I'll just get a floating thingy eventually

[Draz74]

yeah I finally found the ToB

my DM would probably not allow anything of that book ,at all

everything I read just scream Munchkin... too bad ;)

Too bad, it really is a fabulous book for non-Munchkins. Melee should have been like Tome of Battle all along.

But your DM seems to be pretty ... cautious, so with him, you're probably right. (What does he do about simple PHB Clerics/Druids/Wizards breaking the game? )

able learner isn't there for show either, I'm the group's rogue

In that case, you might want to stick mostly with Rogue levels for more skill points. Rogue 16/Swashbuckler 4 with Daring Outlaw still has some good melee power and gets 4 iterative attacks before epic levels.

You don't have to, though. You'll just have a tough time with getting enough skill points ...

taking 2 feats could work to get blood in the water, I could drop the greater specialization (or the whole fighter part)

Your DM would allow feats from Tome of Battle? If so, go for it.

and concentrate on crits (swashbucklers get pretty mean crit abilities at high levels) but again this would reduce my BAB bonuses and my specialization damage

Meh. Blood in the Water will give you more damage bonuses in the long run than Weapon Specialization. If you fight with weapons with a 15-20 threat range.

[Soranar]

But your DM seems to be pretty ... cautious, so with him, you're probably right. (What does he do about simple PHB Clerics/Druids/Wizards breaking the game? )

well it's quite simple

newbs play spellcasters, which makes them really inefficient...

divine casters aren't allowed metamagic feats of any kind

druids lose natural spell and get major circumstance maluses to everything whenever they get near any kind of town (always...)

and unlike most campaigns we often get 12-15 encounters a day, so you run out of spells really quickly

also he usually finds ways around basic tactics like flight: most fights are inside, buildings have a habit of collapsing on us and killing the whole party whenever someone throws a large area of effect spells (and when we don't opposing spellcasters do)

he might allow the feat from ToB since it would take two, and in his mind nearly every monster that exist has crit immunity anyway

did I mention my DM was a sadist?

[Dusk Eclipse]

[I]

did I mention my DM was a sadist?

No you haven't but by his houserules it can be seen

[HCL]

Why are you making a sneak attack character if every monster has crit immunity?

[Darrin]

he might allow the feat from ToB since it would take two, and in his mind nearly every monster that exist has crit immunity anyway

You're going to need that Penetrating Strike Alternate Class Feature (ACF), then (Dungeonscape p. 13). This gives you 1/2 sneak attack damage on constructs, undead, and plants, but not elementals or oozes (which are immune to flanking, although if you can blind them somehow, you might be able to get around that). You can take this at Rogue 3rd instead of trapsense (hardly worth having in the first place).

[Eldariel]

Drop Daring Warrior and the advanced versions of Greater Weapon Specialization. They aren't worth the feats. That frees up 3 feats. Pick up Melee Weapon Mastery [PHBII] instead. And Craven [CoR]. And Darkstalker [LoM] if planning on sneaking, Dragonfire Strike [DM] if going to trigger your Sneak Attack through other means.

You're going to need that Penetrating Strike Alternate Class Feature (ACF), then (Dungeonscape p. 13). This gives you 1/2 sneak attack damage on constructs, undead, and plants, but not elementals or oozes (which are immune to flanking, although if you can blind them somehow, you might be able to get around that). You can take this at Rogue 3rd instead of trapsense (hardly worth having in the first place).

And yeah, pick this. It's almost a must for Rogues. You'll prolly flank a lot anyways. Darkstalker may be worth considering; it enables flanking some creatures not otherwise flankable (due to all-around vision).

[Sstoopidtallkid]

But your DM seems to be pretty ... cautious, so with him, you're probably right. (What does he do about simple PHB Clerics/Druids/Wizards breaking the game? )

well it's quite simple

newbs play spellcasters, which makes them really inefficient...

divine casters aren't allowed metamagic feats of any kind

druids lose natural spell and get major circumstance maluses to everything whenever they get near any kind of town (always...)

and unlike most campaigns we often get 12-15 encounters a day, so you run out of spells really quickly

also he usually finds ways around basic tactics like flight: most fights are inside, buildings have a habit of collapsing on us and killing the whole party whenever someone throws a large area of effect spells (and when we don't opposing spellcasters do)

he might allow the feat from ToB since it would take two, and in his mind nearly every monster that exist has crit immunity anyway

did I mention my DM was a sadist?

So, you are expected to be able to go 10+ fights without resting, Druids are nerfed, SA doesn't work, and the best defenses are prevented...why are you going Rogue? You need something with infinite healing and constant offenses. I recommend Dread Necro.

[deuxhero]

Given that he said "the groups", I wager they will be up the creek without a skillmonkey if he doesn't. Though I think Factotum would be better.