Fabricate [D&D 3.5]

[Lappy9000]

At a previous gaming session, one of our players wanted to try out his newly acquired Fabricate spell. Due to the vagueness of the spell description, we were confused if the spell was solely for quickly creating items out of raw material, or if finished materials could be used, via Full Metal Alchemist.

Examples that came up:

• Turning an enemy sword into a largely useless item (a spoon was mentioned)
• Fabricating shackles from a throne to keep an official tied to his chair.
• Creating a gaping hole in the deck of a ship (by turning the wood into something else; giant nutcrackers were mentioned).

I'd be greatly appreciative if someone could shed some light on our query!

[Milskidasith]

At a previous gaming session, one of our players wanted to try out his newly acquired Fabricate spell. Due to the vagueness of the spell description, we were confused if the spell was solely for quickly creating items out of raw material, or if finished materials could be used, via Full Metal Alchemist.

Examples that came up:

• Turning an enemy sword into a largely useless item (a spoon was mentioned)
• Fabricating shackles from a throne to keep an official tied to his chair.
• Creating a gaping hole in the deck of a ship (by turning the wood into something else; giant nutcrackers were mentioned).

I'd be greatly appreciative if someone could shed some light on our query!

It can't hit any magic items, which means that all three of those may not work. Additionally, the ship would take multiple rounds due to the long casting time.

[erikun]

I'm a bit confused by your question, so I'll try to be clear. Fabricate allows you to craft an item, as per the Craft skill, although the action only takes 1 round. "Creatures or magic items cannot be created or transmuted by the fabricate spell," as the spell says, so you could not Fabricate an enemy's magical sword or turn a golem into a chair. The end result of Fabricate needs to be something achievable through the Craft skill, so you could not, say, fabricate a gold throne out of a single gold piece.

Also note that the "casting time" depends on the volume you are trying to affect.

To answer your specific questions:

• You could fabricate a nonmagical sword if you could get your hands on it. This may require anything from making a melee touch attack against the weapon (and possibly provoking an AoO) to actually needing to disarm the weapon first, depending on the DM rulings. Weapons held by creatures would probably deserve a saving throw, as per attended objects.
• Fabricating shackles from a throne would only work if there is enough spare material in the throne that some shackles could be "chisled" of forged out of it. You would still need to grapple/pin the official to get the shackles on them, though.
• Using fabrication to destroy objects is certainly an interesting way to use the spell, and I would allow it. I see nothing wrong with fabricating a hole into a boat or a passageway through stone. Please note that you need to make a Craft: Stonework check to ensure that the passageway doesn't collapse on your head, though. It would be reasonable for the DM to restrict Fabricate when it comes to special materials. (Mithral, Adamantine, etc.)

[Milskidasith]

I'm a bit confused by your question, so I'll try to be clear. Fabricate allows you to craft an item, as per the Craft skill, although the action only takes 1 round. "Creatures or magic items cannot be created or transmuted by the fabricate spell," as the spell says, so you could not Fabricate an enemy's magical sword or turn a golem into a chair. The end result of Fabricate needs to be something achievable through the Craft skill, so you could not, say, fabricate a gold throne out of a single gold piece.

Also note that the "casting time" depends on the volume you are trying to affect.

To answer your specific questions:

• You could fabricate a nonmagical sword if you could get your hands on it. This may require anything from making a melee touch attack against the weapon (and possibly provoking an AoO) to actually needing to disarm the weapon first, depending on the DM rulings. Weapons held by creatures would probably deserve a saving throw, as per attended objects.
• Fabricating shackles from a throne would only work if there is enough spare material in the throne that some shackles could be "chisled" of forged out of it. You would still need to grapple/pin the official to get the shackles on them, though.
• Using fabrication to destroy objects is certainly an interesting way to use the spell, and I would allow it. I see nothing wrong with fabricating a hole into a boat or a passageway through stone. Please note that you need to make a Craft: Stonework check to ensure that the passageway doesn't collapse on your head, though. It would be reasonable for the DM to restrict Fabricate when it comes to special materials. (Mithral, Adamantine, etc.)

Fabricate is a close range spell, so you don't have to be anywhere near the sword.

[erikun]

What are the rules for casting spells on attended objects? I don't think you could cast, say, Melf's Acid Arrow on a weapon or shield an opponent is holding - in that case, you wouldn't be able to Fabricate a sword an opponent is holding.

Perhaps I'm just mixing up the rules for attended objects, though.

[Slayn82]

Limited Wish to replicate Fabricate or Major Creation is the way to go.

Create Iron Maidens, Lead Half Plates of Crappywork + Towershields, Chains and restrains, Iron Masks or Guilhotins and imprision/kill your enemies with one standard action.

[Lappy9000]

It can't hit any magic items, which means that all three of those may not work. Additionally, the ship would take multiple rounds due to the long casting time.

None of the aforementioned items were magical.

Lotta Information

So, what I'm getting is that the character in question would basically have to make Craft checks (within limits of the skill) in order to achieve what they wanted to do. That sounds fair, thanks!

[deuxhero]

Don't wizards have really really high int and most craft DCs are really really low?

[Tar Palantir]

None of the aforementioned items were magical.

So, what I'm getting is that the character in question would basically have to make Craft checks (within limits of the skill) in order to achieve what they wanted to do. That sounds fair, thanks!

Duration and casting time are not the same thing. Summon Monter I, for instance, has casting time of 1 round, duration of 1 round/caster level.

Edit: you edited away what I was quoting before I could quote it! Cursed ninja edits (ninjedits? Must investigate further)!

[Lappy9000]

Duration and casting time are not the same thing. Summon Monter I, for instance, has casting time of 1 round, duration of 1 round/caster level.

...what?

Non-ja Edit: Oh, okay. That makes more sense now. I apologize for my lack of concise posting.

[erikun]

I'm not sure what he's referring to, either. Fabricate has a casting time of 1 round per 10 cubic feet affected.

And you only need to make a Craft check to make a specific item. Turning a sword into a spoon would require a Craft check - turning it into a twisted piece of metal would not. (I would personally roll Craft anyways, because turning an opponent's sword into a slinky is far cooler than just disabling it. )

[Magnor Criol]

Based on what DnD spell and timing trends are, I'd guess that the actual rules as intended were that it should take at least 1 round. Most of the time when you see phrasing like that ("it takes X time for every Y amount") it means, and is clarified as such, "X time for Y amount or less."

That said? It's not explicitly penned, and I think that that is an excellent use of the spell, very creative indeed. I like it a lot.

If you start imposing craft checks, considering the Wiz's Int focus and somewhat low craft DCs, I think you're well within reason to increase in-combat DCs to keep difficulty paced - I mean, you're trying to do it split-second, and under duress, so a higher DC is natural.

[Slayn82]

If you start imposing craft checks, considering the Wiz's Int focus and somewhat low craft DCs, I think you're well within reason to increase in-combat DCs to keep difficulty paced - I mean, you're trying to do it split-second, and under duress, so a higher DC is natural.

Well, you can Craft very complex illusions under those circunstances, so that's hardly a nuisance at all, wizards are used to it. But i still maintain that Limited Wish is the way to go with this, like its uses with Move Earth spell (producing the effect in one standard action to trap an entire army ftw).

[Foryn Gilnith]

Fabricate is a close range spell, so you don't have to be anywhere near the sword.

You need to be able to manipulate the material components (i.e. the sword), though. Sort of like that Cone of Cold exploit Sinfire was discussing earlier.

[kamikasei]

Due to the vagueness of the spell description, we were confused if the spell was solely for quickly creating items out of raw material, or if finished materials could be used, via Full Metal Alchemist.

I don't think anyone has directly addressed this. From the spell:

You convert material of one sort into a product that is of the same material.

No implication that the materials being converted can't have been in some worked form already, so I'd say that yes, unless the materials constituted a creature or were magical, you can fabricate any given X into any shape you want (within the time and space limits specified), even if it already had a very nice and useful shape.

[Lappy9000]

That said? It's not explicitly penned, and I think that that is an excellent use of the spell, very creative indeed. I like it a lot.

If you start imposing craft checks, considering the Wiz's Int focus and somewhat low craft DCs, I think you're well within reason to increase in-combat DCs to keep difficulty paced - I mean, you're trying to do it split-second, and under duress, so a higher DC is natural.

Thanks, I'm sure he'll appreciate it. However, the character in question isn't exactly a wizard, and gets to add his level to Craft checks anyway

No implication that the materials being converted can't have been in some worked form already, so I'd say that yes, unless the materials constituted a creature or were magical, you can fabricate any given X into any shape you want (within the time and space limits specified), even if it already had a very nice and useful shape.

Cool beans. Thank you everyone!