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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Storm Pillar + Forced Movement (4e)

    I'm sure this is a dumb question, but I’m not 100% sure of the rules on the interactions between the wizard at-will power “Storm Pillar” and abilities that force targets to move and I can't find the rules for it anywhere.

    Storm Pillar says it deals 1d6+Int damage to anything that moves into a space adjacent to it. My interpretation of this says that this moving through any squares adjacent to it will always set off the pillar…IE, if you move through two squares, you would take 1d6+Int twice.

    My key question is simply this: Does forced movement through adjacent squares trigger the damage? IE, would a well-placed thunderwave, shoving the victim through Storm Pillar squares, deal that extra damage?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Storm Pillar + Forced Movement (4e)

    Not sure of the RAW, but in our game Forced Movement can result in damage (if you fail a save to be sent into the "hostile" square), but you can only be damaged by an effect once per round.

    So, Thunderwaving someone through three squares of Storm Pillar would give the person a save to avoid entering that square, but if they entered, they'd take damage once.

    There's actually something I disagree with that we do, which is that if they make their save to avoid entering hostile squares, they stop all their movement. I'd prefer to switch to if they make their save, they move to another legal square, continuing the forced movement. However, it's at least applied fairly.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Storm Pillar + Forced Movement (4e)

    I know that RAW, forced movement does not provoke AoO. This may be similar enough to that to say that, no, it does not cause damage.

    OTOH, since the Pillar is not making AoO, it simply is a field, it may indeed cause the damage.

    Edit: Just reviewed the power. It says, "Moves adjacent to the pillar on it's turn(emphasis mine)" Therefore, forced movement does not cause the target to take damage.
    Last edited by Saintjebus; 2009-12-29 at 10:28 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    The J Pizzel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Storm Pillar + Forced Movement (4e)

    I don't see where it says "on it's turn". It just says "each creature that moves to any square adjacent to the pillar takes...etc"

    In my opinion. Not giving an enemy damage for being forced into makes the whole spell kinda useless. I thought the point of it was to stretegically place it so that your peeps could move bad guys into it. And since it's not a OA, I think I'd allow it.

    Now, as to wether it gets damage 3 times for making someone slide across the side of it (I assume that's what you're attempting) I'd be alittle wary of. In fact, I'm not sure what I'd do in that situation.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Storm Pillar + Forced Movement (4e)

    Ah. I'm looking at the Character Builder, you are probably looking at the book. They may have errata'ed it. It makes more sense considering the rules on forced movement AoO that forced movement, for the most part, doesn't cause damage.

    Though only the wording of the power makes it so. Look at a similar power, Cloud of Daggers. It says, "Any creature that enters the area or starts its turn there takes...."

    So you could Thunderwave someone through a cloud of daggers, and it would take damage. Twice in fact: once when it entered, and once when it's turn started(assuming that the duration had not expired)
    My girlfriend(non-gamer) after watching me play an RPG on the Xbox: "So, you're just killing people and taking their stuff?"
    Me-.....Right!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh's Fist View Post
    "You weak minded fools! If you had the strength of will to look past his illusionary fire, you would see that - OH GOD, IT BURNS! IT BURNS EVEN HOTTER THAN THE REAL THING!"

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Storm Pillar + Forced Movement (4e)

    Quote Originally Posted by The J Pizzel View Post
    I don't see where it says "on it's turn". It just says "each creature that moves to any square adjacent to the pillar takes...etc"

    In my opinion. Not giving an enemy damage for being forced into makes the whole spell kinda useless. I thought the point of it was to stretegically place it so that your peeps could move bad guys into it. And since it's not a OA, I think I'd allow it.

    Now, as to wether it gets damage 3 times for making someone slide across the side of it (I assume that's what you're attempting) I'd be alittle wary of. In fact, I'm not sure what I'd do in that situation.
    10/14/2009 Errata: "In the third sentence of the Effect line, add “on its turn” after “adjacent to the pillar.”

    First published in Arcane Power."

    I just checked the Compendium, and the power only triggers on a creature's own turn. So no forced movement triggers.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Storm Pillar + Forced Movement (4e)

    However, you could move it into a square adjacent, and, for example, have the paladin mark it, and then, it has to (A. Move toward the Paladin, taking damage from the Pillar or (B. Move away from the pillar(not toward the Paladin), taking damage from the Paladin's mark.

    Of course that requires some more tactical maneuvering- the paladin has to be in a position such that the creature cannot move out of the range of the Pillar without going away from the Paladin.
    My girlfriend(non-gamer) after watching me play an RPG on the Xbox: "So, you're just killing people and taking their stuff?"
    Me-.....Right!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh's Fist View Post
    "You weak minded fools! If you had the strength of will to look past his illusionary fire, you would see that - OH GOD, IT BURNS! IT BURNS EVEN HOTTER THAN THE REAL THING!"

  8. - Top - End - #8

    Default Re: Storm Pillar + Forced Movement (4e)

    Readied Actions take care of the "on its turn".

    Really, the Storm Pillar nerf was unnessecary.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Storm Pillar + Forced Movement (4e)

    Hrmm. Well, that kind of blows. I guess now its more of a "Don't come here" power than an actual attack. Interesting. I guess you could use it to trap creatures in place...

    Theoretically, could you ready an action to drop a storm pillar in something's path as soon as it started moving, forcing it to get through the pillar or alter its movement in some way?

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Storm Pillar + Forced Movement (4e)

    Quote Originally Posted by AtwasAmps
    Theoretically, could you ready an action to drop a storm pillar in something's path as soon as it started moving, forcing it to get through the pillar or alter its movement in some way?

    Yes. Since Readied actions are immediate interrupts, this would force them to take damage or stop their movement, wasting their move action.
    My girlfriend(non-gamer) after watching me play an RPG on the Xbox: "So, you're just killing people and taking their stuff?"
    Me-.....Right!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh's Fist View Post
    "You weak minded fools! If you had the strength of will to look past his illusionary fire, you would see that - OH GOD, IT BURNS! IT BURNS EVEN HOTTER THAN THE REAL THING!"

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Storm Pillar + Forced Movement (4e)

    Quote Originally Posted by Saintjebus View Post
    Yes. Since Readied actions are immediate interrupts, this would force them to take damage or stop their movement, wasting their move action.
    Basically you could play hell with your DM by constantly shifting around your initiative and blocking at least one creature off a turn.

    So in theory could you say "I ready an action to drop a pillar in front of X as soon as X starts to move?"

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Storm Pillar + Forced Movement (4e)

    Yes. That is an entirely valid use for a readied action. Quite tactical, too. Keep in mind, though. The text says "creatures". You and your allies are creatures. If you move next to that pillar, you will also take damage.(being in the interesting position of taking damage of 1d6 + your own int modifier)
    My girlfriend(non-gamer) after watching me play an RPG on the Xbox: "So, you're just killing people and taking their stuff?"
    Me-.....Right!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh's Fist View Post
    "You weak minded fools! If you had the strength of will to look past his illusionary fire, you would see that - OH GOD, IT BURNS! IT BURNS EVEN HOTTER THAN THE REAL THING!"

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Storm Pillar + Forced Movement (4e)

    No it doesn't, it says enemies only.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Storm Pillar + Forced Movement (4e)

    You are correct- I mixed the wording up with cloud of daggers when I used it as an example.
    My girlfriend(non-gamer) after watching me play an RPG on the Xbox: "So, you're just killing people and taking their stuff?"
    Me-.....Right!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh's Fist View Post
    "You weak minded fools! If you had the strength of will to look past his illusionary fire, you would see that - OH GOD, IT BURNS! IT BURNS EVEN HOTTER THAN THE REAL THING!"

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