[3.5] Dracolexi

[EnnPeeCee]

I've been looking over the Dracolexi PrC, and was thinking it would be a fun one to try out sometime. Just had a few things I was wondering about them, also looking for general suggestions for what works well with them (races, feats, other PrCs, etc)

Now, since it requires spontaneous casting, that would be mean using sorcerer as the base class for best results. However, being a speaking type character, bard would fit the flavor much better, but would miss out on the higher level Power Word spells. Is there a good way to get party face / party buff abilities as a sorcerer?

When using the reduced level Power Word spells, is there any reason to have the standard level spell known as well?

Being focused in verbal casting, I'm feeling that this would be a good class to be running around in full armor with. Anything wrong with that?

What are some good "verbal" spells to use, preferably without somatic components, but could also be stilled. (also keeping in mind I'll probably be playing below level 10)

Aside from the obvious (human or cha boosting race), any good races to use?
Any other classes that combo well?
Any feats that are a must have?

Whoo.... questions....

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Bard8/Dracolexi1/Sublime Chord1/Dracolexi9

[EnnPeeCee]

Bard8/Dracolexi1/Sublime Chord1/Dracolexi9

Oho, I forgot about such things. That is something I'll look into.
EDIT: So you would advance the Chord's casting with Dracolexi? (goes to show how much I play outside core =P)


Another question that just popped into my head:
Are all of the Power Word spells worth it, or are there ones to avoid?

[Pluto]

Are all of the Power Word spells worth it, or are there ones to avoid?

Don't spend many high-level spells known on them. Having one known might be useful, but avoid redundancy:

They're Mind Effects, so they're easily negated.
And even if they get past Mind Blanks/Undead type/other defenses, their effects are also often ignored (Stunning, Blindness, Death effects).
Single-target effects coming from high level slots is also kind of annoying.

It's nice that they don't give a save, so you wouldn't do badly to pick up one of the effects. But they're just so easily ignored that you shouldn't invest too heavily in them.

But Power Word: Pain is incredible if you want something dead at low levels and don't mind waiting.

[Optimystik]

Oho, I forgot about such things. That is something I'll look into.
EDIT: So you would advance the Chord's casting with Dracolexi? (goes to show how much I play outside core =P)

Yes. PF's suggestion gives you all the casting of a sorcerer and still allows you to easily qualify for Dracolexi.

Another question that just popped into my head:
Are all of the Power Word spells worth it, or are there ones to avoid?

As stated, PW: Pain is the best one for its level. Mind-Affecting and Compulsion really put a damper on the higher ones' usefulness.

As for non-somatic spells, fear my google-fu!

[EnnPeeCee]

Yes. PF's suggestion gives you all the casting of a sorcerer and still allows you to easily qualify for Dracolexi.



As stated, PW: Pain is the best one for its level. Mind-Affecting and Compulsion really put a damper on the higher ones' usefulness.

As for non-somatic spells, fear my google-fu!

Whoa, crazy martial arts.

I mostly had meant non-core, but that's a good list anyway. Thanks.

[Skaven]

To be honest, I always stuck to Sorcerer 5 or 6 / Dracolexi 10, 4-5 free levels for whatever.. more sorc or a full cast PrC. Never regretted losing the 1 caster level in return for all the extra spells known.

Can gain back that caster level if you're a Kobold. Use Greater Draconic Right of Passage: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a

[Optimystik]

To be honest, I always stuck to Sorcerer 5 or 6 / Dracolexi 10, 4-5 free levels for whatever.. more sorc or a full cast PrC. Never regretted losing the 1 caster level in return for all the extra spells known.

How do you get the Perform (Oratory) ranks at that level?

[PhoenixRivers]

One of my preferred tricks is Sudden Maximize on Power Word: Pain. It's pretty much a "Kill Anything" at CR 1-3.

[AngelisBlack]

If I remember correctly, there are one or two sorcerer spells that give a bonus to diplomacy and such. I believe one of them is "Voice of the Dragon" from SpC. That might help with the party face thing. You could also try being an entertainer's apprentice as well. [DMG 2] You get diplo as a class skill then I believe.

[ErrantX]

Bard8/Dracolexi1/Sublime Chord1/Dracolexi9

This build isn't legal, sadly, as you can't enter Sublime Chord before your 11th level due to skill requirements.

Something like Bard 7/Dracolexi 2/Bard +1/Sublime Chord 2/Dracolexi +8 would be more what you'd be doing. This, this I'd recommend. This will allow you to get the spells and skill requirements you need for Sublime Chord by 10th level (hence why I staggered the last level of bard after 2 Dracolexi). The 1st level caster loss will be suffered by the Bard spellcasting, and the top 8 levels of Dracolexi will advance your Sublime Chord spells. You want 2 levels of Sublime Chord so you can get the 2nd level song that improves your caster level. Another idea is to drop one of those levels of bard for a level of spellthief (Complete Adventurer) and take the Master Spellthief feat from the Complete Scoundrel to give yourself a few more options magically speaking, by stealing enemy spells (or borrowing from a friend) to power your own.

-X

[Pharaoh's Fist]

This build isn't legal, sadly, as you can't enter Sublime Chord before your 11th level due to skill requirements.

There are, er... ways around this.

Inspire Greatness gives two bonus HD. Get a Psychic Reformation cast on yourself while you have the HD and reallocate you skill points accordingly based on your boosted HD.

When the Inspire Greatness effect goes away, there's no rule saying what happens to the skill points you reallocated...

[ErrantX]

There are, er... ways around this.

Inspire Greatness gives two bonus HD. Get a Psychic Reformation cast on yourself while you have the HD and reallocate you skill points accordingly based on your boosted HD.

When the Inspire Greatness effect goes away, there's no rule saying what happens to the skill points you reallocated...

Okay, yes, there is that, but that is a screwy optimizer trick that sane DM's don't allow :P My build above follows sane rules, at least I think so anyhow. YMMV.

-X

[Pharaoh's Fist]

How do you feel about Dusk Giants?

[UserClone]

Sane? I don't think I can find a DM anywhere near me that will let me use Bard to eat up the lost caster level, then use one PrC to advance the spellcasting of another PrC (especially in the case of Sublime Chord, whose spellcasting is pretty much the main core of the class).

It's technically legal, but it would have no place in my game.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Fine, let's go with ErrantX's build.

[ErrantX]

Sane? I don't think I can find a DM anywhere near me that will let me use Bard to eat up the lost caster level, then use one PrC to advance the spellcasting of another PrC (especially in the case of Sublime Chord, whose spellcasting is pretty much the main core of the class).

It's technically legal, but it would have no place in my game.

The difference is that it's legal and also doesn't require an optimization trick to utilize. It's just the plain rules allowing that happen. It wouldn't be a problem if it was advancing something like Suel Arcanamach's spells, or a War Mind's power list. It's not all that different, to be honest. It's allowable in that it keeps the character in the competitive Tier 2-3 range.

-X

[Foryn Gilnith]

IF you find it distasteful, that's your concern. A valid one, and easily a good enough explanation to nix that build, but a subjective concern. The slightly more objective criterion would be the power level achieved by all this finagling - which, if ErrantX is no liar, is still lower than that of the fully optimized wizard. Sure, Sublime Chord/Dracolexi can cause problems; but no more so than Sublime Chord alone.

[Bonzai]

A player in one of my games went into it with warmage/Wild Mage/Dracolexi. He really seemed to enjoy the class.

[ErrantX]

IF you find it distasteful, that's your concern. A valid one, and easily a good enough explanation to nix that build, but a subjective concern. The slightly more objective criterion would be the power level achieved by all this finagling - which, if ErrantX is no liar, is still lower than that of the fully optimized wizard. Sure, Sublime Chord/Dracolexi can cause problems; but no more so than Sublime Chord alone.

Precisely. There is no Incantatrix/IotSV cheese in here :) It's just a guy who can sing and speak words of incredible power. Tier 2 in potency. No better or worse than a similarly optimized sorcerer.

-X

[Skaven]

How do you get the Perform (Oratory) ranks at that level?

Hmm, my bad. That depends on a DM who allows skill focus to count as ranks towards PrC's. Not exactly a gamebreaking houserule.

Add as many Sorc levels as required :)

[Optimystik]

Precisely. There is no Incantatrix/IotSV cheese in here :) It's just a guy who can sing and speak words of incredible power. Tier 2 in potency. No better or worse than a similarly optimized sorcerer.

-X

Nitpick: Dracolexi are orators, not singers.

Though I suppose that that could make him a rapper.

[Ernir]

How do you feel about Dusk Giants?

It makes me feel like squeezing a chicken farm down your throat.

Sane? I don't think I can find a DM anywhere near me that will let me use Bard to eat up the lost caster level, then use one PrC to advance the spellcasting of another PrC (especially in the case of Sublime Chord, whose spellcasting is pretty much the main core of the class).

It's technically legal, but it would have no place in my game.

Hmm, Dracolexi doesn't have anything to do with spellcasting advancement until 2nd level, so you are not even flipping between progressions.

Anyway, what I wanted to say is that it makes perfect sense to me, and that I don't think I can't imagine any of the DMs near me having an issue with it. Including me.

[EnnPeeCee]

Good suggestions, and things to watch out for when picking classes. Since this is just a concept, I'm by no means choosing a definite combo right now, but I'll keep these all in mind.

I'm glad to see that no one has said not to use Dracolexi, as seems to be common with the classes I want to play. =P

[Skaven]

That's because Dracolexi rock ;)

My favorite PrC, in fact.

[EnnPeeCee]

That's because Dracolexi rock ;)

My favorite PrC, in fact.

Haha, awesome. Its nice to pick a good one for a change.

[Optimystik]

I'm glad to see that no one has said not to use Dracolexi, as seems to be common with the classes I want to play. =P

It's fun and flavorful without being weak. Why would we? 9/10 casting with helpful abilities and free feats (Still Spell or Eschew Materials, both solid choices) is well within the boundaries of an acceptable PrC.

As for which words to learn, the best ones mimic useful feats or spells. I advise the following:

Ssearth (prolong) - the healing is mediocre, but combining it with a buff gives you free Sudden Extend - solid gold. Plus, unlike Sudden Extend, you can use it once per person in the party each day.

Ocuir (see) - this is an excellent buff to put on the trapmonkey or scout. Keep in mind that it is a competence bonus, and so won't stack with Inspire Competence, but will typically grant a larger bonus anyway.

Ossalur (travel) - Mass Expeditious Retreat can come in handy, especially since this one applies to swimming and flight as well! Pity you learn it so late.

Veschhik (replenish) is the cream of the crop, giving you back your highest used spell slot - effectively giving you an extra 9th-level spell usage each day. It also works on any other spontaneous caster in the party, not just yourself, so you could replenish both yourself and your Beguiler companion.

The others I was unimpressed by, though your campaign may have compelling reasons for you to take them.