About Rope Trick...

[JonestheSpy]

Could be part of the 'overlooked rules' thread, but since Rope Trick is so often sited as essential in the arsenal of Wizard abuse, I thought it deserved its own thread.

From the SRD:

Note: It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one.

Extradimensional space - like Portable Holes and Bags of Holding. Obviously, "hazardous" is up to the GM, but I do wonder how many wizards would be happy to climb up Ye Olde Rope if there was a chance of a serious mishap with their storage devices each time...

[Optimystik]

RAI suggests you should ignore this reference as it relates to Rope Trick.

And of course, RAW suggests... nothing at all.

[Yuki Akuma]

Yeah, and the spell doesn't say anything happens... just that it's hazardous. Somehow.

[erikun]

My current wizard doesn't have Rope Trick for that exact reason - it doesn't last all night at low levels, and at higher levels the party would (and now does) have bags of holding, etc.

[Optimystik]

My current wizard doesn't have Rope Trick for that exact reason - it doesn't last all night at low levels, and at higher levels the party would (and now does) have bags of holding, etc.

Elaborate - What exactly do you think would happen if they climbed into your Rope Trick with their bags?

[Zaydos]

I know at one point the same thing happened as does when you put a bag of holding into a portable hole (or vice versa) an implosion into the astral plane. Think that was 3.0 and they took it out in 3.5... don't know why.

[Optimystik]

I know at one point the same thing happened as does when you put a bag of holding into a portable hole (or vice versa) an implosion into the astral plane. Think that was 3.0 and they took it out in 3.5... don't know why.

Because they realized how ridiculous it would be to penalize players for keeping their gear close by while they rested. See also: the link I posted.

[Yuki Akuma]

I know at one point the same thing happened as does when you put a bag of holding into a portable hole (or vice versa) an implosion into the astral plane. Think that was 3.0 and they took it out in 3.5... don't know why.

Nope! The spell is entirely unchanged. I checked.

It was 2e.

[erikun]

Elaborate - What exactly do you think would happen if they climbed into your Rope Trick with their bags?

Given that my DM said they'd either implode of get us dumped in the Astral... I'm pretty sure one of the two.

[Yuki Akuma]

Given that my DM said they'd either implode of get us dumped in the Astral... I'm pretty sure one of the two.

So the reason you don't know the spell is because of a house rule, not the actual mechanics of the game? Okay.

[BobVosh]

Wait, what? It still exists:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems...m#bagofHolding

If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space: Bag and hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process.

As for rope trick in pathfinder it merely makes the bags go inert while you are in there.

[taltamir]

I think I recall an errata or FAQ where WOTC has elaborated that this is only an issue if you "open" a bag of holding or a "portable hole" inside the rope trick / MMM / etc...

you can take your bag of holding into the rope trick, and out of... just don't activate it while inside one.

[Optimystik]

Wait, what? It still exists:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems...m#bagofHolding

Your quote says nothing about a Rope Trick.

I think I recall an errata or FAQ where WOTC has elaborated that this is only an issue if you "open" a bag of holding or a "portable hole" inside the rope trick / MMM / etc...

you can take your bag of holding into the rope trick, and out of... just don't activate it while inside one.

WotC says to ignore any interaction completely - again, I point to the link I posted.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Yeah, and the spell doesn't say anything happens... just that it's hazardous. Somehow.

Perhaps it gives people cancer.

[UglyPanda]

Yeah, and the spell doesn't say anything happens... just that it's hazardous. Somehow.

Perhaps it gives people cancer.

I kinda wonder where the extra-dimensional space is suspended in. If it's just suspended in space, there might be a chance of radiation.

Or pirates if it's Spelljammer. I prefer the latter.

*Thinking idly*
The bag of holding shows your equipment to the space pirates and they decide to something you...

Ack, it's late. My humors aren't working. In particular, the aqueous.

[taltamir]

You never know. I kinda wonder where the extra-dimensional space is suspended in. If it's just suspended in space, there might be a chance of radiation.

Or pirates if it's Spelljammer. I prefer the latter.

this just might be a shot in the dark here but... i think the where is "outside" of your dimension. so where is it? in another dimension.

[UglyPanda]

I mean in which dimension, guy-who-doesn't-know-how-to-imply-information. I don't think there is a designated dimension for extra-dimensional crap or that there is some sort of space in which other dimensions rest within.

Or is it just the astral plane?

[taltamir]

ah, good question...
I don't rightly recall.
I think the astral plane... if it is a custom demiplane then it would also be in the astral plane.

[BobVosh]

It is usually considered the astral plane.

Your quote says nothing about a Rope Trick.

I was responding to this for the bag of holding bit:

I know at one point the same thing happened as does when you put a bag of holding into a portable hole (or vice versa) an implosion into the astral plane. Think that was 3.0 and they took it out in 3.5... don't know why.

[Optimystik]

I was responding to this for the bag of holding bit:

You misread Zaydos' post - he was saying that in 3.0, the same thing that happened when you dropped a bag of holding into a portable hole would happen with a Rope Trick, and they took it out for 3.5. So your quote is just reiterating what he said - the SRD says nothing about Rope Trick.

[Yuki Akuma]

You misread Zaydos' post - he was saying that in 3.0, the same thing that happened when you dropped a bag of holding into a portable hole would happen with a Rope Trick, and they took it out for 3.5. So your quote is just reiterating what he said - the SRD says nothing about Rope Trick.

(He was wrong anyway, by the way.)

[jmbrown]

RAW says it's hazardous. They don't explain what that hazard is. It's the DM's job to warn players who plan on using rope trick up front what it's known to do in their game world. If it does nothing, say it. If it implodes, say it. If it gives a cumulative 5% chance per hour to cause cancer, say it.

Because they realized how ridiculous it would be to penalize players for keeping their gear close by while they rested. See also: the link I posted.

I'd say it's because Wizards wanted to get away from the Gygaxian play style of magic being unpredictable and dangerous. A drawback isn't ridiculous when you're warned ahead of time. Now if the description said "DM has the right to screw with rope trick at his whim" then that would be ridiculous.

Also, FAQ is not RAW. If it's not in the errata it can be ignored like the FAQ saying blur and displacement also affect mirror image despite RAW saying figments and glamers cannot interact at all.

So the reason you don't know the spell is because of a house rule, not the actual mechanics of the game? Okay.

What is this supposed to mean? Obviously a house rule is a mechanic that applies in that DMs game. If the DM says "Rope trick implodes when you bring a bag of holding in it" then that's how his game world works and the mechanics are modified.

[BobVosh]

Rope tricks and PH/BoHs are the cause of STDs still existing. Even clerics working full time can't stop them with cure diseases as adventurers know the rope trick is needed. And the mage can't have gear without his bag of holding.

[Yuki Akuma]

What is this supposed to mean? Obviously a house rule is a mechanic that applies in that DMs game. If the DM says "Rope trick implodes when you bring a bag of holding in it" then that's how his game world works and the mechanics are modified.

It means "it's silly to use a house rule as an example of why you never choose a particular spell when no one else uses your house rules, making the statement pointless".

It's like saying you never choose Grease because your DM says it explodes if you cast a fire spell near it. Okay, but so what?

[jmbrown]

It means "it's silly to use a house rule as an example of why you never choose a particular spell when no one else uses your house rules, making the statement pointless".

It's like saying you never choose Grease because your DM says it explodes if you cast a fire spell near it. Okay, but so what?

Silly outside of that particular DM's game, yes, but I thought you were implying it was silly to adhere to house rules that contradict RAW in general. My bad.

[Yuki Akuma]

Silly outside of that particular DM's game, yes, but I thought you were implying it was silly to adhere to house rules that contradict RAW in general. My bad.

Psh, don't worry. I know I have a habit of being abrasive. I probably deserved it.

[BobVosh]

Wait wait wait...we are missing a golden opportunity. We can finally retire "a wizard did it" with "Rope trick + BoH." It is dangerous in a vaguely threatening way as it introduces pure chaos. Everything can be explained with it.

[Yuki Akuma]

Wait wait wait...we are missing a golden opportunity. We can finally retire "a wizard did it" with "Rope trick + BoH." It is dangerous in a vaguely threatening way as it introduces pure chaos. Everything can be explained with it.

As long as it doesn't screw over the players by destroying their equipment or killing them with no save, I approve of this.

Although it's still not RAW. But screw RAW, this is cool.

[SparkMandriller]

So what, every time you bring a bag of holding into a rope trick, a groundsquid appears somewhere?

[BobVosh]

Not everytime or it wouldn't be pure chaos. However, yes.