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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    quiet1mi's Avatar

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    Default Designing a Feudal Mageocracy...

    For my character background I need to build a Feudal Mageocracy... [We may want to visit]

    Now I understand a Feudal Mageocracy is a place where caster's pay homage to more powerful caster's [Feudal] and more importantly a place where muggles [non-casters] are 2nd class citizens at best.

    Where is a place I could go to do some research and get a good foundation for this setting.
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    A Fighter/Paladin will just hack you to bits

    A Wizard/Sorcerer will just blow you up with a spell

    A Rogue/Ranger/Monk will just kill you in your sleep

    A Cleric/Druid will just squash you after buffing himself

    A Bard will slowly twist your ethics, corrupt your morals, and make you do vile acts just for the chance to face him. When you fight him, he will have your family and friends fighting for him. For he wields the deadliest weapon against you and that is, his word against yours.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Designing a Feudal Mageocracy...

    Quote Originally Posted by quiet1mi View Post
    Where is a place I could go to do some research and get a good foundation for this setting.
    A Mystara setting site or message board, asking about the Kingdom of Glantri or Empire of Alphatia.

    Alternatively, EBay and purchasing GAZ 3 The Principalities of Glantri or Dawn of the Emperors - Thyatis and Alphatia (boxed set), and reading the material directly.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Designing a Feudal Mageocracy...

    as TTK suggested: Glantri or Alphatia are good starting points (the first is an HRE-style collection of magocracies, the latter a full bore racist "caster-or-GTFO" imperial monarchy).

    Dark Sun is nothing but magocracies (the city states of the Dragon Kings) surrounded by wastelands. Similar can be said of Al-Qadim (Sinbad D&D).

    Thay is the FR magocracy. It is Ming the Merciless-land. There was also a silly pretendy edge-of-the-map setting bloat magocracy called Halruaa, which leapt on the flying ships meme when Eberron was published.

    Eberron has elements of magocratic oligarchy with the great houses and their sparkly Hot Topic dragon tattoos.

    Jakandor had a necromantic theocratic monarchy as one of the two major cultures in the setting. It sucked as written, but had potential hidden away in sidebars and throwaway comments.

    Non D&D: Ars Magica. It is love, and all other White Wolf games are mere dust and shadows in its presence.
    Last edited by bosssmiley; 2010-01-01 at 06:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Designing a Feudal Mageocracy...

    Quote Originally Posted by quiet1mi View Post
    For my character background I need to build a Feudal Mageocracy... [We may want to visit]

    Now I understand a Feudal Mageocracy is a place where caster's pay homage to more powerful caster's [Feudal] and more importantly a place where muggles [non-casters] are 2nd class citizens at best.

    Where is a place I could go to do some research and get a good foundation for this setting.
    This is basically the core concept of the Tippyverse. Because Spellcasters can bind Demons, chain-gate Solars, make simulacrums of Efreet etc. everyone else by default is inferior.

    NPC's never make it past level 1 because if they ever manage to earn some XP it is farmed by the Wizards to fuel spell research. Hell, some may simply pit Commoners against Celestial Badgers the give them XP just to take it.

    Perhaps a bit over the top for what you're wanting, but there you go.
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    Orc in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Designing a Feudal Mageocracy...

    Ars Magica has at its core Wizards running fiefs in a setting that is 13th century Europe + historical folk tales + D&D isms.

    However the wizards who certainly could run the world if they wished to don't because as they have things now they have all of the power and none of the responsibility. The conceits of the setting say that would a wizard try and gain great political power the following would or might happen:

    1. They'd loose absolute power because while they were muddling with administration and affairs of state their fellow wizards would be in their libraries and laboratories studying magic. (the rules back this up completely)

    2. Other wizards would end the mundane focused rebel because they don't want to have dukes and counts turning up on their own doorsteps screwing with their research with requests and devious plans to subvert the wizards own servants.

    3. It's hinted that it is not the will of heaven that wizards should rule and perhaps divine intervention might foul up the plans of the would be ruler.

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    Default Re: Designing a Feudal Mageocracy...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard View Post
    NPC's never make it past level 1 because if they ever manage to earn some XP it is farmed by the Wizards to fuel spell research. Hell, some may simply pit Commoners against Celestial Badgers the give them XP just to take it.
    Now, I'd imagine it'd be desirable to level them up first...I mean, a level 1 victory only provides 300 xp. Higher level victories provide much more.

    I would estimate that xp farms would be at the highest level the mages think they can safely control.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Designing a Feudal Mageocracy...

    well one thing you've got going for you is feudalism especially early feudalism plays very strongly to dnds strength.

    I am the lord of this land and you give me tribute/ do menial labor for you becuase if i leave then Monsters/bandits will walk in here and do even worse (or if your evil i'm king becuase i'm a wizard 5 level higher then the next highest charecter and you cant do anything to stop me)

    Now are wizard king is ruling his section of the world and as he gains in power more land is coming under his control but look out a dragon is taking his western province and a hill giant is attacking his eastern lucky he delegated his eastern province to a slightly lower level ally so while he can deal with the big stuff he dosent need to be bothered by realtivly weak enemies he has lords who can handle it.

    Now the lord has his knights might be like level 3 or 5 strong enough to take care of bandits and orcs while the lords off fighting a giant.

    The system assumes that pepole with class levels are relatively rare all you need to do to make it a mage centered is to assume kings and lords are high level characters the very simple fact that a level 20 fighter does not equal a level 20 mage (even with out a tippyverse) will leave full caster in charge of the highest ranks of government.
    Last edited by awa; 2010-01-01 at 11:57 AM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    quiet1mi's Avatar

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    Default Re: Designing a Feudal Mageocracy...

    Currently the political world is divided into city-states... the one I come from is a magocracy...

    Honor sounds like a good think to focus on... Along with the reason why I left the City-State... My families station in the city-sate... etc...

    I do not think that the people of this City-State are powerful enough nor have the political ideals at the time to be a Tippyverse...

    Any tips to slowly go from a feudal magocracy to a Tippyverse...

    Were talking a society where mages rule the land and in order to be a citizen you have to show arcane proficiency, to a land of well.... Tippyness....
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    A Fighter/Paladin will just hack you to bits

    A Wizard/Sorcerer will just blow you up with a spell

    A Rogue/Ranger/Monk will just kill you in your sleep

    A Cleric/Druid will just squash you after buffing himself

    A Bard will slowly twist your ethics, corrupt your morals, and make you do vile acts just for the chance to face him. When you fight him, he will have your family and friends fighting for him. For he wields the deadliest weapon against you and that is, his word against yours.

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    Default Re: Designing a Feudal Mageocracy...

    What wizard in the Tippyverse actually runs anything anyway? Its actually his simulacrum while the real wizard is off busy being in an extra dimensional space safe from all harm?

    But, um, as it pertains to the topic, if the place you are worried about is only the size of the city state, you might want to consider if its a truly hereditary magocracy or those wizards can fight for position more or less on their individual merits.

    And you might consider how powerful the head honcho in the place is too. If its a level 17+ or epic magician, the other city states have problems...If the world's best tops out at the level 10s or something, things are significantly more pleasant for non-magicians...
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Designing a Feudal Mageocracy...

    Well the thing about the tippyverse is theirs no dm dropping rocks on pepole.
    The thing ive seen in most tippyverse threads is high level wizard mind rapes lower level wizard both wizards team up mind rape slightly more powerful wizard until every thing with class levels is under their control then start making magic traps with stuff like fabricate to create infinite wealth and so on.

    Really only 3 thing stop a tippyverse dm saying no you cant do that, sufficient levels/wealth to start the infinite chain, a higher level wizard who though of it first who mind rapes you before you get your plan off the ground.

    The biggest problem in a campaign is if the dms going to allow that kind of abuse of the magic system why hasn't someone done it already why are their any farmers if someone could create a create food and water trap. If its possible one of those 20+int characters should have thought to do this already.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Designing a Feudal Mageocracy...

    city state goes along poorly with feudal their diffrent political structures.
    A city state is a single independent government based around a single city and the area immediately surrounding it. A feudal government is where one guy is in charge and he gives some land to someone under him and that person runs the land and pays rent to it's owner. This person paying rent then rents this land out to a number of other pepole who in turn rent their land out to a number of pepole all the way down to the pepole actually tilling the fields.

    Now in the feudalism example nobility would be the nobility becuase like in early feudalism they would be the ones to ride out and stop pepole from pillaging the peasants on their land (at least in theory) this system works well for dungeons and dragons becuase at mid to high levels it dosent matter how many low level characters you throw at a pc

    so is this a city state or a feudal government?

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Designing a Feudal Mageocracy...

    Could be a city-state with feudal holdings outside of the city with those nobles being held in fealty to the duke/prince of the citystate, even if who gets to be the prince/duke/magelord changes up periodically.

    From the description it seems like it's basically political intrigue of Italy with mages in charge so there's an additional magically charged element in addition to the mundane assassins and politicking. Which would be a good reason there wasn't any tippy aspirations, because no one is powerful enough to pull off the especially impressive exploits, or has the will to do so because weakening oneself in order to provide food or healing for the masses doesn't interest them due to the fact that the only people who matter are the mages.

    And the locate city bomb is generally too problematic for them to clean up afterwards, what with the wightocalypse eventually going to come back towards them, but is quite possibly something that has been thought up and possibly even used in the past.
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2010-01-01 at 02:55 PM.
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    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Designing a Feudal Mageocracy...

    Even if it worked, Locate City bomb would be a bad idea when everybody lives in the same city.
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Designing a Feudal Mageocracy...

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    Even if it worked, Locate City bomb would be a bad idea when everybody lives in the same city.
    Well, yes. I was referring to why they didn't use it as a way to dominate the other cities openly or have it as a common part of their arsenal of war.

    Though I imagine a disgruntled individual could want to try it on the city they're living in as well, especially if they were mad or confident enough in their necromantic skills that they thought that they could deal with the resulting wights.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Designing a Feudal Mageocracy...

    Is their a new version of locate city bomb that actually works?

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Designing a Feudal Mageocracy...

    Have you ever played Morrowind? The Telvanni Dark elf clan is like that and it is done really well.

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