invincible PCs

[Desmond Tiny]

I made a slip in front of my PCs who were too afraid to fight the evil ogre 10 feet in front of them at level 4. I told them I would not force them to create new characters because they were new and they could barely create their first characters. One of the players picked up on this and made a big deal trying too convince the other characters to fight the ogre because they were "invincible". His point was magnified because I made the ogre stop attacking mortally wounded PCs so they would not die. I really do not want to kill them but I really do not want them to think they cannot die.

[pffh]

Kill one the rest will fall in line.

[Saintjebus]

If you are unwilling to kill them, you have two choices

(1. Make all the encounters easy.

(2. Employ Rule 0 to keep them from dying whenever they would.

Both options, in my opinion, are bad.

I would tell them next session that, in your opinion, they are no longer new, and are subject to dying if they don't play smart. Them throw them up against something that they need to run away from. If they don't run, and they die, they will know you are serious. If they do run, you have proven your point.

[Tyndmyr]

Tell them a person on the internet told you that you were wrong. He said that players need to be fearful and in danger. Characters also. Start the session by building a small pile of sticks, and laying out matches for the character sheets of the dead.

[zoobob9]

My PCs used to do that, so do what i did:

1.choose the most valuable player. mine was a dragonborn/vampire fighter.
2.kill him
3.have the PCs go to a high level cleric.
4.have the cleric make them work it off if they cant pay.
5.to make sure they pay, use the mark of justice ritual on them.
6. afterwards, have the cleric give them the raise dead ritual for a reduced price, even if nobody is a high enogh level, just to keep them away.

[Tyndmyr]

Kill one the rest will fall in line.

True...but then again, it's true for all life's problems.

[Desmond Tiny]

I guess that is good but what would happen if the whole party decides to stay and fight the impossible monster and the whole party dies.

[Kylarra]

Have them get captured. Shank their gear. Be creative with non-lethal penalties.

There's a lot of things you can do to a player without killing them to make them regret getting in over their heads.

[Desmond Tiny]

I guess I could steal their gold and gear and start an adventure of escaping the mindflayer stronghold.

[Saintjebus]

I guess that is good but what would happen if the whole party decides to stay and fight the impossible monster and the whole party dies.

Quite honestly?

"Everything goes blurry and fades to black. You wake up in your tent. It was all a dream.

(later in the day)

You meet an ogre on the road. He looks really familiar.... (roll Insight)

It's the exact same ogre from the dream that all of you had last night. The one where you all died.

What would you like to do? "

If that doesn't do the trick, kill one of them for real. Then they'll know that you're serious.

[Swordgleam]

Death in D&D is a speedbump, not an end. They spend all their gold getting the person brought back. If it's a TPK, they wake up on some nether plane and have to fight their way back to the world of the living, or they wake up in a dungeon somewhere.

[Tyndmyr]

I dislike the "it's all a dream" trope. Try not to use it if possible, once at the most. Otherwise, it's very obviously a get out of death free card.

Death/rescue of characters and subsequent indebtedness is good.

If players are too bullheaded about attacking impossible stuff, eh, let em die off. Hopefully their next characters will have more wis.

[TheLogman]

Continue play how you would have before. Give them level appropriate encounters. Dole out treasure normally. Occasionally give them things to fight that are a twich above their power level, or in locations that make the fight more difficult.

At some point, they will die. Especially if you help them a little. Maybe just one will die. This could make a great plot point. Have them seek out a Priest or Cleric to bring their friend back. Maybe the spell needs a special ingredient to work properly. Have the Priest's assistant stay with the PC's, and have the dead one play him. When they finish the quest, have them all level up. Then, the dead guy can choose to play the Cleric's assistant or his character (And level up his character just to be fair).

In my experience, dying can be a great part of the game, as long as a few rules are followed:

1. Losing levels =/= fun. Just let them get revived with no level loss, once a spell is cast or a higher power demands it.

2. Lower Level parties seek out Clerics or the Favor of powerful dudes to save their friends.

3. Total Party wipes lead to unfun and making new dudes. Partial party wipes make for occasional fun, quest times, and good stories. Maybe the fighter finishes off the rest of the enemies himself but has to drag his 3 friends upstairs for help.

4. Making new characters can often be very unfun, especially when you just are starting out. Find ways to work the dead dudes back into the game. If you absolutely cannot bring the dead guy back, consider a long lost twin? Or alternatively, have some dudes already rolled up. Forcing the player to do a lot of Out of Character work for something that happened in game can be annoying.

EDIT: Reading above, the epic quest to fight one's way out of the Netherworld or to journey back from the higher planes to stop the enemy or the quest INTO the netherworld to get a friend OUT are all great ways to deal with death that make plot.

Or alternatively, let them be invincible. They can fall to -9 and be unconscious, but they cannot die. Have them meet a fortune teller. She prophesies that some guy will kill them somehow. Maybe they have a weakness. Maybe they accidentally said Buddha at some point and saying it again turns off their inability to die. Maybe the final damage has to be dealt by fire, acid, silver.

Adding a greater consequence for failure other than death (Dystopian nightmare, end of world, and so on) also means that being slowed down by being near death could be defeat.

[Desmond Tiny]

Thank you for your help I think I know what to do now.

[tyckspoon]

One of the players picked up on this and made a big deal trying too convince the other characters to fight the ogre because they were "invincible".

Wait for one of them to actually say that. Then smash his (character's) head off. After a moment's reflection your group will understand *exactly* why that happened and henceforth refrain from any claims of invincibility.

[AslanCross]

Wait for one of them to actually say that. Then smash his (character's) head off. After a moment's reflection your group will understand *exactly* why that happened and henceforth refrain from any claims of invincibility.

This. Definitely this. I'm glad my party's illusions of invincibility evaporated very quickly in Red Hand of Doom.

[dyslexicfaser]

Tell them a person on the internet told you that you were wrong. He said that players need to be fearful and in danger. Characters also. Start the session by building a small pile of sticks, and laying out matches for the character sheets of the dead.

I may safely say that this is hilarious.

I've always said that an attitude of fear is a boon around the gaming table. Keep the character sheet fire going by feeding it little scraps of paper, and claim that the gaming gods are hungry.

Nothing says fun like fear!

[Ranos]

I'm seeing a lot of "kill his character" here. I'm sorry, but what ? Killing a character for metagame reasons is just...bad. Do not, I repeat, do not kill one of them to set an example. You do not get to decide who lives and who dies. Instead, you give players a fair chance. You throw away that DM shield, roll in the open, and show them there'll be no fudging anymore in favor or against them. Don't be afraid to let one of them die if that's the way the combat goes.

They'll stop relying on your kindness once they know for sure that their lives and death are dictated only by their own actions and the dice.

[Tyndmyr]

I'm seeing a lot of "kill his character" here. I'm sorry, but what ? Killing a character for metagame reasons is just...bad.

I presume by bad you mean hilarious.

[Ranos]

I presume by bad you mean hilarious.

Well it sure makes the game into a joke.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Yeah, don't kill characters for metagame reasons. Having them captured by a Necromancer, their soul condemned to personal servitude for Slaanesh while simultaneously experiencing the pain of their body turned into a singular toe of an invincible mass of flesh used to destroy entire cities until it's eventual reduction to singular molecules, each tortured for eternity but not able to be destroyed, is a much better response to metagame issues. They'll learn.

[Tyndmyr]

You are too kind, sir. Nurgle.

[PhoenixRivers]

You told them you won't force them to roll characters. You aren't. Provided they don't abuse your generosity, they don't have to.

If they CHOOSE to go reckless, in the foolish belief that they're invincible? Then they've chosen to put their characters at risk. You didn't force that. They did.

In other words? If they try to abuse generosity, you're in your rights to revoke it.