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Thread: Drown Healing

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    Default Drown Healing

    Simply put, I've seen this mentioned a few times but don't understand what is being referenced.

    Would someone kindly explain it to me?
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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    Quote Originally Posted by Koury View Post
    Simply put, I've seen this mentioned a few times but don't understand what is being referenced.

    Would someone kindly explain it to me?
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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    Touche good sir.
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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    When you drown, you have 0 HP. The rules don't mention what happens if you're already unconscious.

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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Drowning
    When the character finally fails her Constitution check, she begins to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to -1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she drowns.
    The idea is that a character can actually gain hp by drowning, as it automatically resets to 0.

    EDIT: Ninja'ed.
    Last edited by FirebirdFlying; 2010-01-02 at 09:28 PM.

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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    I can't recall the exact wording of it, but I believe the rule on drowning in the core rulebook states that if someone who is drowning fails their save, they go to 0 health, and then on down into the negatives on subsequent saves. Some people choose to interpret this literally, claiming that failing their first save against drowning should put them to 0 even if they were lower than that previously, effectively healing them back up to 0.

    Yes, it really is that stupid.
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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    Quote Originally Posted by GAThraawn View Post
    Yes, it really is that stupid.
    Its also the beauty of RAW. I like things like this. Of course, I'd laugh if one of my players tried to get it to work that way, but thats a separate deal.

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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    You know, I'm still slightly confused as to how this is beneficial.

    It says you fall unconscious (and then says 0 HP even though the definition of unconscious is -1 through -9) which means you can't do anything anyway. Unless you are right at -9 hp, this still speed up death.

    Am I missing something still? Or is the point more along the lines of it happens, not that its beneficial?
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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    Hypothetical situation: You have a character under the effects of Beastland Ferocity and Delay Death, at -a kajillion hitpoints, who has a bucket of water nearby. Delay Death will be wearing off soon, and his only means of healing is gone/indisposed/dead/whatever.

    He drowns up to 0hp.

    Beneficial, no?

    Edit: Of course, you want somebody around to make the Heal check to stop you from drowning, or you're back to square one.
    Last edited by Tanaric; 2010-01-02 at 10:04 PM.
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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    Already unconscious, at negatives. Dunk your friend in, he's back up. Pull him out, he's done drowning and sticks at 0, healing normally.
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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    Ok, so in situations where you have someone who will be ok with you being knocked out and helpless, yeah, I guess.

    It seems that that is still a fairly specific set of circumstances but if your friend keeps failing their stabilization checks and is at -9 it can buy time I suppose.

    Any explanation for 0 HP equaling unconscious? Also, can you choose to fail a check if you are already unconscious?
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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    Of course, there's also no rules saying what happens if you manage to get out of the water before you die.

    So, basically, once you hit 0 hp from drowning, you're dead in two rounds. No matter what.
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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    actually the drowning rules make a mistake, they say that you fall unconscious to 0HP.
    However, the HP rules say that at 0 HP you are conscious still, you can take one move or standard action, which will knock you down to -1 HP and you start dying, but as long as you lie still you will NOT fall unconscious.

    its not so much about -9 as it is about -40... there are spells that allow you to take more then -10 damage and remain alive for the duration of the spell... if you are healed back above -10 before the spell end you will be fine, if the spell ends and you are at -10 or below you drop dead.

    So your fighter has delay death and is wrestling the dragon, you finish off the dragon and your fighter is now at -140 HP, he has 3 rounds left on delay death and then he dies. You are out of heals, your cleric can hit him with 3 cure light wounds, but there is no way it will be enough to bring him to -9 before the spell expires and he drops dead... solution?
    Round 1:
    -everyone delays action to go in the order as described below
    -fighter takes out a bucket from the bag of holding, puts it on the ground
    -cleric casts create water on it, fills it up.
    -wizard and rogue grab the fighter together and dunk his head in the bucket of water, it is a grapple check, he willingly does not resist and fail.
    round 2:
    - Fighter has to pass a con check, the fighter willingly fails (he takes a deep breath of water), he is now drowning... he passes out and is at 0 HP.
    - Cleric delays action
    - Wizard pulls out the the fighter, rogue delays action
    - Cleric makes a heal check to treat his drowning friend, if he will fail, the rogue will try as well. if he fails too, they will try again next round...

    end result, fighter is saved. :)
    Last edited by taltamir; 2010-01-02 at 10:30 PM.
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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    Of course, there's also no rules saying what happens if you manage to get out of the water before you die.

    So, basically, once you hit 0 hp from drowning, you're dead in two rounds. No matter what.
    I believe Stormwrack has the rules for stopping someone from drowning. DC 15(?) Heal check.

    Something like that.
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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    What about failing a check on purpose while unconscious? If you are knocked down to negative whatever and don't have Diehard or Shape Soulmeld: Rageclaws or any of the other similar effects can you still somehow force yourself to inhale water?

    And what if you DO have one of those effects?! Can you walk underwater in a permanent 0 HP state? Oh, and what if your at -5 or whatever, toss your head into a bucket with one of those effect on, and fail your check on purpose? Can you then shoot out the water in some cool pseudo-water beam attack? Make a ranged touch roll against an enemy torch?

    Also of note, I'm merely being curious.
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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    i honestly have no idea what happens :)
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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    Quote Originally Posted by Koury View Post
    What about failing a check on purpose while unconscious? If you are knocked down to negative whatever and don't have Diehard or Shape Soulmeld: Rageclaws or any of the other similar effects can you still somehow force yourself to inhale water?
    I'm pretty sure you can, yes.

    And what if you DO have one of those effects?! Can you walk underwater in a permanent 0 HP state?
    If they say that you can still take actions at 0 HP, yes.

    Oh, and what if your at -5 or whatever, toss your head into a bucket with one of those effect on, and fail your check on purpose? Can you then shoot out the water in some cool pseudo-water beam attack? Make a ranged touch roll against an enemy torch?
    Only if you could do that beforehand. Being an unliving drownbomination does not specifically grant you the ability to shoot water beams.
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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    Being an unliving drownbomination does not specifically grant you the ability to shoot water beams.
    I must say, I feel that Rule of Cool (the true rule 0) directly contradicts you, good sir.
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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    I really enjoy trying to come up with in-game explanations for rules absurdities like this. In this particular case, though, the answer is pretty clear: water, as an archetype, is associated with life and healing. Coming in sufficient contact with water (ie, swallowing a bunch of it while submersed) cleanses a character of all damage sustained from other sources.
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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    Being unconscious and being at zero HP aren't necessarily related. If you fail your save against an effect that puts you to sleep you're unconscious but you still have all of your HP. If you get whacked by a beatstick and put at exactly 0HP you're still concious. The two simply happen to coincide in the event that you begin drowning.

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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    Thinking about it, is there anything in the rules stating that Warforged, who do not need to breathe air, don't drown?
    Drowning
    Any character can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to twice her Constitution score. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check every round in order to continue holding her breath. Each round, the DC increases by 1. See also: Swim skill description.

    When the character finally fails her Constitution check, she begins to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to -1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she drowns.

    It is possible to drown in substances other than water, such as sand, quicksand, fine dust, and silos full of grain.
    So their are checks to hold your breathe. If by RAW, you do not breathe, do you automatically succeed on these checks, or do you have no breath to hold, and thus automatically fail?

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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    SRD specifically says being unconscious means being at -1 to -9 HP.

    Mind you, I agree with you. But RAW...

    EDIT: I believe, off the top of my head, 0 HP is staggered.

    EDIT 2: The problem here is obvious. Spells like sleep use the term unconscious as per defined in a dictionary (as does drowning). The problem comes in when you consider the fact that unconscious is a defined game term.

    Anyway, to reiterate, I agree with you anyway. I just like RAW fun things.

    EDIT 3: Sleep never actually uses that word. It makes targets helpless. Edit 2 remains valid anyway
    Last edited by Koury; 2010-01-02 at 11:56 PM.
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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    The problem here is that the wording says that you go TO zero hit points, not DOWN TO zero hitpoints, meaning that it can increase from negative to zero. More a nitpick on WotC's bad wording of a lot of rules.

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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gralamin View Post
    Thinking about it, is there anything in the rules stating that Warforged, who do not need to breathe air, don't drown?

    So their are checks to hold your breathe. If by RAW, you do not breathe, do you automatically succeed on these checks, or do you have no breath to hold, and thus automatically fail?
    Well, if they don't need to breathe air it would logically be assumed that you cannot hold your breath (since you have none) and would therefore not make a check at all.

    However, if you don't allow for anything that is not explicitly provided for in the rules, then you could say that a Warforged must hold its breath... And it would then pass out... Better yet, it could do so voluntarily above water and still die from drowning. Unlike the suffocation rules, the drowning rules don't require that you be underwater, immersed in liquid, or anything similar. At most, it says that it is possible to drown in substances other than water; it doesn't explicitly rule out air.

    Then again, there's all sorts of stupidness that results from ignoring things that aren't explicitly written out. For example, the rules don't explicitly say at what point a dead character becomes a dead body, or that a dead character cannot take actions. If you don't mind having arbitrarily high amounts of negative hitpoints, or lacking a soul, you can continue your campaign as an immortal dead person without any real penalties!
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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    Quote Originally Posted by Demented View Post
    Then again, there's all sorts of stupidness that results from ignoring things that aren't explicitly written out. For example, the rules don't explicitly say at what point a dead character becomes a dead body, or that a dead character cannot take actions. If you don't mind having arbitrarily high amounts of negative hitpoints, or lacking a soul, you can continue your campaign as an immortal dead person without any real penalties!
    Technically there are some penalties. Having negative hit points means that your zero subdual damage is higher than your hit points so your unconscious.

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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    I suppose that could put a damper on the adventuring-while-dead idea.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demented View Post
    I suppose that could put a damper on the adventuring-while-dead idea.
    Technically IIRC the exact definitions of all the conditions involved allows one to perform purely mental actions just fine. Thus a dead Psion can still manifest all its powers and is just as dangerous...

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    Default Re: Drown Healing

    ...and any DM that lets drown healing fly in his game should hand over his DM screen and retire. Seriously. Unless he is running a comedy style campaign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    ...and any DM that lets drown healing fly in his game should hand over his DM screen and retire. Seriously. Unless he is running a comedy style campaign.
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