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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Pincushion (3.5 Spell)

    Pincushion
    Conjuration (Creation)
    Level: Sor/Wiz 9
    Components: V, S, F
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Effect: Caster level number of arrows
    Range: Medium (100ft. + 10ft./level)
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: No

    As you finish the last gestures of the spell a surge of arrows appear from thin air and strike your target.

    Upon completion a number of arrows equal to your caster level appear and fly towards the target of this spell. You must make a successful ranged attack with a competence bonus equal to your caster level to hit. On a hit the target takes 1d6 (+1 per four caster levels) of piercing damage per arrow.

    Focus
    An arrow with an enhancement bonus of at least +1.

    A high level attack spell that deals physical damage and targets AC. Thoughts?
    Last edited by GoC; 2010-01-03 at 05:21 PM.

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    Milskidasith's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pincushion (3.5 Spell)

    So is this one attack, or many?

    Anyway, it's more powerful and probably easier to hit than most blasty spells, but blasting sucks anyway.

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    Default Re: Pincushion (3.5 Spell)

    I don't like it. You're a spellcaster, so your BAB is going to absolutely blow. It's just a bunch of arrows, targeting AC without it being a touch attack or anything like that. Sure, it's a lot of arrows, with no cap, but you're going to miss with most of them with only +10 on them, unless you have a high Dexterity score. Even then, you're going to miss a lot.

    It could be improved by making the arrows magical though. That way, you get the enhancement bonus to attack and damage.

    EDIT: Sorry if that sounded harsh. I just certainly wouldn't take it as written.
    Last edited by Temotei; 2010-01-03 at 05:28 PM.
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    Default Re: Pincushion (3.5 Spell)

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei221 View Post
    I don't like it. You're a spellcaster, so your BAB is going to absolutely blow. It's just a bunch of arrows, targeting AC without it being a touch attack or anything like that. Sure, it's a lot of arrows, with no cap, but you're going to miss with most of them with only +10 on them, unless you have a high Dexterity score. Even then, you're going to miss a lot.

    It could be improved by making the arrows magical though. That way, you get the enhancement bonus to attack and damage.

    EDIT: Sorry if that sounded harsh. I just certainly wouldn't take it as written.
    There's a bonus to attack based on your caster level, and it's +1 to damage per four caster levels. That's basically an ehancement bonus and a huge to-hit bonus (probably +6 damage per arrow and +24-25 to hit).

    Please read the spell thoroughly before criticizing it. None of the complaints you addressed are actually a problem; you've got, at bare minimum, one attack against AC (as it's worded) with a +30 in order to deal 20d6+100 damage.
    Last edited by Milskidasith; 2010-01-03 at 05:32 PM.

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    Default Re: Pincushion (3.5 Spell)

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    There's a bonus to attack based on your caster level, and it's +1 to damage per four caster levels. That's basically an ehancement bonus and a huge to-hit bonus (probably +6 damage per arrow and +24-25 to hit).

    Please read the spell thoroughly before criticizing it. None of the complaints you addressed are actually a problem; you've got, at bare minimum, one attack against AC (as it's worded) with a +30 in order to deal 20d6+100 damage.
    I missed the to-hit bonus (I blame it on the hyper feelings and distraction from writing a different post meanwhile).

    I see no enhancement bonus though. Fortunately, there's that +1 per four caster levels you mentioned. That's unnamed though.

    Well then. I do like it.
    at bare minimum
    Actually, at bare minimum, it's 17d6+68.
    Last edited by Temotei; 2010-01-03 at 05:36 PM.
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    Default Re: Pincushion (3.5 Spell)

    I said basically... sure, it doesn't get past DR/magic, but since it's one attack, it's more powerful unless they have DR/magic 100.

    It's basically a super-orb!

    Imagine a twinned repeated quickened version of this, at caster level 25. That ends up being 200 arrows per round! Yay incantatrix!

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    Default Re: Pincushion (3.5 Spell)

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    I said basically... sure, it doesn't get past DR/magic, but since it's one attack, it's more powerful unless they have DR/magic 100.

    It's basically a super-orb!

    Imagine a twinned repeated quickened version of this, at caster level 25. That ends up being 200 arrows per round! Yay incantatrix!
    Insane. But it is a 9th level spell.
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    Default Re: Pincushion (3.5 Spell)

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    So is this one attack, or many?
    By fluff it should be many but noone wants to make that many rolls so...

    Also, DR does not apply to spells even if the deal physical damage... Weird huh?

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    Default Re: Pincushion (3.5 Spell)

    Quote Originally Posted by GoC View Post
    By fluff it should be many but noone wants to make that many rolls so...

    Also, DR does not apply to spells even if the deal physical damage... Weird huh?
    Oh. It's not my day for rule-reading I guess.

    That is weird.

    It could be fluffed into saying something like having a single arrow fired, then when it gets close, it splits into seventeen to [insert arbitrarily high number here--must be ≤infinity] arrows.
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    Default Re: Pincushion (3.5 Spell)

    Throwin' out ideas. I like the spell. :D

    What if the attack roll was keyed off the primary casting stat (instead of Dex)? A number of attack-roll spells have that feature. Or maybe if it was a touch attack instead of a normal attack, which sort of makes sense fluff-wise, as if there's arrows everywhere they're going to find all the chinks in that armor.

    What if this spell allowed for an area attack option? Instead of targeting a single foe, you target...i dunno, a 5' radius circle (so 4 squares). Then all the foes inside that area get reflex saves instead of an attack roll, and they take damage equal to the number of arrows / number of targets?

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    Default Re: Pincushion (3.5 Spell)

    Your versions make the spell much weaker, besides the touch attack part. Nobody wants weaker spells.

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    Default Re: Pincushion (3.5 Spell)

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    Your versions make the spell much weaker, besides the touch attack part. Nobody wants weaker spells.
    I'm not sure how they make it weaker. My first suggestion swaps the dex-based attack roll for an int- or cha-based attack roll, which basically all casters slinging 9th level spells will have higher than dex, so that's stronger.

    My second suggestion was an area attack OPTION, not fully switching to an area attack, and there's really no way adding an option could make something weaker. The caster gets to choose between which application works best for the situation they're in, so it makes it more versatile - even if one of the options will get used less than the other, more versatility is straight-up better when it doesn't sacrifice anything for it.

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    Default Re: Pincushion (3.5 Spell)

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnor Criol View Post
    I'm not sure how they make it weaker. My first suggestion swaps the dex-based attack roll for an int- or cha-based attack roll, which basically all casters slinging 9th level spells will have higher than dex, so that's stronger.
    Your suggestion removed the CL bonus on the check, which made it weaker. Unless you were suggesting giving a CL bonus and making it based on your casting stat, in which case the attack roll is even easier to make and you'll probably never miss.

    My second suggestion was an area attack OPTION, not fully switching to an area attack, and there's really no way adding an option could make something weaker. The caster gets to choose between which application works best for the situation they're in, so it makes it more versatile - even if one of the options will get used less than the other, more versatility is straight-up better when it doesn't sacrifice anything for it.
    The AoE option would be nearly useless, though.

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    Default Re: Pincushion (3.5 Spell)

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    Your suggestion removed the CL bonus on the check, which made it weaker. Unless you were suggesting giving a CL bonus and making it based on your casting stat, in which case the attack roll is even easier to make and you'll probably never miss.
    That's actually exactly what I was suggesting. Yes, they'll rarely miss, but it is a 9th level spell, after all; those are usually always stacked in the caster's favor, especially one with as focused a scope as this one. On the other hand, if they rarely miss, what's the point of the roll at all, I suppose...

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    Default Re: Pincushion (3.5 Spell)

    It increases the complexity of resolving the spells, but I'd be inclined to see it as CL + Primary Casting Attribute to hit, with damage resolved (and DR applied) separately for each arrow, but all arrows would be both magic and adamantine. Instead of granting +1 damage per 4 levels, give the magic arrows a +1 enhancement bonus per 4 levels (this means the arrows can bypass epic damage reduction at CL 24+). Specify that the arrows are only conjured for one round, to avoid turning the spell into an endless magic arrow creation engine.
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    Default Re: Pincushion (3.5 Spell)

    Maybe the arrows should get an enhancement bonus equal to that of the actual arrow you use.
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