Swordsage Questions ~3.5e~

[AirGuitarGod32]

I understand that Swordsage might as well be the weakest of the three Sublime Master classes, but I enjoy it for its very wide ability selection.

I am running a Half-Elf Swordsage that'll look like this at 20:

Swordsage 3/Fighter 7/ToB PrC 10

I have but two simple questions:

I want to go into Eternal Blade, so what synergizes with Diamond Mind?

And since I get Khopesh as a favored weapon (The character is a Broken Sword from Hero knock-off), what sort of feats should I focus on? No psychic feats and minimum Incarnum intervention.

[The Dark Fiddler]

I want to go into Eternal Blade, so what synergizes with Diamond Mind?

You won't have the 10 BAB needed for the prerequisites from SS 3/ Fighter 7.

[Dusk Eclipse]

How are you getting Diamon Mind as a SS discipline? IIRC it was WB only and you cant get into Eternal blade at 11 with that classes, it needs BAB +10 and as a SS 3 Fgr 7 youhave either BAB 8 or 9.

Warblade is definetly a better option to enter Eternal blade and straight Warblade instead of fighter is better... maybe 1 or 2 levels of fighters to get some bonus feats

[AirGuitarGod32]

You won't have the 10 BAB needed for the prerequisites from SS 3/ Fighter 7.

meant 8 fighter 2 swordsage and my DM's allowing me to take it

[AirGuitarGod32]

How are you getting Diamon Mind as a SS discipline? IIRC it was WB only and you cant get into Eternal blade at 11 with that classes, it needs BAB +10 and as a SS 3 Fgr 7 youhave either BAB 8 or 9.

Warblade is definetly a better option to enter Eternal blade and straight Warblade instead of fighter is better... maybe 1 or 2 levels of fighters to get some bonus feats

on pg 15, swordsage has Diamond Mind.

and I want Swordsage for Skillmunky-ness, but I'll do warblade if it plays nicer

[Dusk Eclipse]

on pg 15, swordsage has Diamond Mind.

and I want Swordsage for Skillmunky-ness, but I'll do warblade if it plays nicer

Sorry I confused it with Iron heart

[Douglas]

The only Warblade exclusive discipline is Iron Heart. Swordsages get everything except the Crusader exclusive (Devoted Spirit), the Warblade exclusive (Iron Heart), and the teamwork (White Raven) disciplines.

Unless you really really NEED that many feats for some reason, go more Swordsage (or more Warblade if you make that your base) instead of Fighter. More maneuver progression is almost always better than more feats, and both classes add in some class features too.

[AirGuitarGod32]

The only Warblade exclusive discipline is Iron Heart. Swordsages get everything except the Crusader exclusive (Devoted Spirit), the Warblade exclusive (Iron Heart), and the teamwork (White Raven) disciplines.

Unless you really really NEED that many feats for some reason, go more Swordsage (or more Warblade if you make that your base) instead of Fighter. More maneuver progression is almost always better than more feats, and both classes add in some class features too.

So it'd be better to be a SS2/WB8 than have fighter?

[The Dark Fiddler]

on pg 15, swordsage has Diamond Mind.

and I want Swordsage for Skillmunky-ness, but I'll do warblade if it plays nicer

Yeah, Warblade is quite a bit better for getting into Eternal Blade than Swordsage, even with your DM waiving the BAB prerequisite. I can't remember exact examples as to why, as I'm away from ToB (man, I need to get my own copy I think there was a bit of Int synergy), but it really is. It's also vastly superior to SS 2/ Fighter 8, which also kind of ruins the Swordsage's variety, unless you need A LOT of feats for some reason.

Edit: Ninja'd, and yes. Unless you need the feats, Warblade levels instead of Fighter levels would be much better.

[Douglas]

So it'd be better to be a SS2/WB8 than have fighter?

Personally I'd probably go SS 10 or WB 10 instead, but SS2/WB8 doesn't give up all that much and does have some nice advantages. They're close enough that the choice is more a matter of taste and details than one really being "better" than the other. Just keep one class as a definite main class - a split like SS5/WB5 is silly and bad.

Also, you know that "trade out one maneuver known at every even level 4th and above" thing? Ask your DM if he'll let PrCs like Eternal Blade continue that. That swapping mechanism is actually where about half your new high level maneuvers known come from, and PrC maneuver learning progressions were balanced as if it continued even though by RAW it doesn't.

[Keld Denar]

Also, spread those swordsage levels out. If you finish as a SS2/WB8, you'd want to go WB4/SS1/WB2/SS1/WB2. This gets you your first set of SS maneuvers at IL3, allowing you to pick 1st or 2nd level maneuvers. The 2nd level is at IL 5, allowing you to pick up a 3rd level maneuver and stance.

Also, talk to your DM about the WB stance progression. They get their 2nd at 4th level, instead of 5th, but there are no 2nd level stances. Thus, they can only pick from 1st level stances, of which you'll have 2 already. If your DM allows you to delay picking up that stance, you're IL will be 5 (well, 5.5) and you can pick up a 3rd level stance like Absolute Steel or Pearl of Black Doubt.

[AirGuitarGod32]

Personally I'd probably go SS 10 or WB 10 instead, but SS2/WB8 doesn't give up all that much and does have some nice advantages. They're close enough that the choice is more a matter of taste and details than one really being "better" than the other. Just keep one class as a definite main class - a split like SS5/WB5 is silly and bad.

Also, you know that "trade out one maneuver known at every even level 4th and above" thing? Ask your DM if he'll let PrCs like Eternal Blade continue that. That swapping mechanism is actually where about half your new high level maneuvers known come from, and PrC maneuver learning progressions were balanced as if it continued even though by RAW it doesn't.

If I want to reach Eternal Blade, and be a swordsage to do it, then Ill suffer slightly. SS 10 won't meet the +10 BAB, but I think the SS 2 might give me the boost I need. Admittedly, I cant go Island pre-epic, I'm cool with that. Its almost purely for the class flavor. Mmmmmm....elfy

[AirGuitarGod32]

Build "Plan B" for BAB and Damage off 3 scores:

Swordsage 4/Warblade 7/Eternal Blade 9

this fufills the EB requirements, and adds some nasty damage boosts (Warblade's Damage Battle Skill and Swordsage's Insightful Strike.)

Focus primarily on Diamond Mind, with dabbles of Iron Heart and Tiger Claw (Note: Khopesh?) and be Mr. Damage (aside from the Pounce Dwarf Barbarian)

[Mongoose87]

If I were you, I'd consider putting my Swordsage levels, or some of them, after the Warblade levels, to take advantage of higher initiator level.

[AirGuitarGod32]

I see. I do think that this concept, while cool is destined to fail. Seriously, I did the math. An Unarmed Swordsage who takes a one level or so dip into monk deals surprisingly more damage, and can do so many times over. Case Dismissed: Weapon Swordsage is almost a destined failure

[Douglas]

If I were you, I'd consider putting my Swordsage levels, or some of them, after the Warblade levels, to take advantage of higher initiator level.

It's a tradeoff. Putting 2 Swordsage levels before the 4th Warblade level lets the second Warblade stance be level 3. There are a number of low level Swordsage maneuvers that remain useful even at very high levels, so you can still get some significant mileage out of those two Swordsage levels even if you put them at character levels 1 and 2.

Build "Plan B" for BAB and Damage off 3 scores:

Swordsage 4/Warblade 7/Eternal Blade 9

this fufills the EB requirements, and adds some nasty damage boosts (Warblade's Damage Battle Skill and Swordsage's Insightful Strike.)

Focus primarily on Diamond Mind, with dabbles of Iron Heart and Tiger Claw (Note: Khopesh?) and be Mr. Damage (aside from the Pounce Dwarf Barbarian)

Unless you're planning to have Wisdom as your primary stat (or your game is high powered enough to have really high stats for everything) I don't think the second and third levels of Swordsage are worth setting back Warblade maneuvers another level.