So, you're going to fight an army...

[Rasman]

...what do you, as an individual melee character, bring with you to make fighting these masses MUCH easier?

[arguskos]

inb4 caster.

Anyways, I would probably bring some siege engines, use them to soften up the enemy lines before I engage them.

[Glass Mouse]

A great cleavage.

[Prime32]

Something which gives you a damaging aura, like the mantle of flame soulmeld.

Some Desert Wind manouvers, which are one of the few ways a martial character can deal area damage.

[Eldariel]

Armor of Invulnerability. DR 5/Magic is gonna go a long way, and is very much the easiest way of acquiring DR. Also, Martial Spirit, Delayed Damage Pool, Spiked Chain, sufficient AC that I'm only hit on 20s (~30 or so), Greater Fortifications, Boots of Steadfast, Crystalmask of Mindarmor, Ring of Freedom of Movement and if I'm allowed to pick feats, Cleave, Great Cleave, Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip, Planar Touchstone: Catalogues of Enlightement (Pride), Steadfast Determination and yeah.

Basically, I strive to make myself immune to as many things as possible that they can throw at me (I'm expecting an army to have at least low-level battlemages and some heavy artillery like Giants or such), wade in healing myself with each strike and cut swathes of destruction with Great Cleave, using enemies to prevent too efficient targeted volleys. Better DR would also be welcome, but I expect an army cannot afford magical weapons across the board, so DR/Magic is gonna actually do something.


That, or I play an Eternal Blade Archer and bombard the entire army into oblivion in a matter of seconds from a kilometer or two away.

[Rasman]

Something which gives you a damaging aura, like the mantle of flame soulmeld.

Some Desert Wind manouvers, which are one of the few ways a martial character can deal area damage.

are there any elixers that would give that?

[tahu88810]

Leadership and thus an army of my own.
Magic items for a nice lockdown
Knowledge of the area, so I can use choke points.
Cleave.
A decent lockdown build.

[Tyndmyr]

Literally, kill yourself and reroll a caster. It's probably most effective.

Second most effective, if you can sneak, assassinate important people.

The larger the scale, the less any one melee character matters. It's pretty easy to make yourself more or less immune to damage from those much lower level than you, yes, but targetting is a problem. You can normally kill a few people every round.

Doing this, you'll wipe out, oh...probably a hundred or so people in the course of a battle. Presuming you fight on the front lines, and don't face anything too unusual or crazy.

Casters, on the other hand, entirely alter the course of battles as standard actions at high levels. Wall of fire? Yeah, that's a pretty severe issue for low level troops. They either need to go around and screw up their battle plan, or suffer enough damage to make them easy picking for friendly troops. Cloudkill....the symbols....illusions...wall of force. Yeah, the caster is more important than half a dozen melee types of equivalent level.

[Rasman]

Literally, kill yourself and reroll a caster. It's probably most effective.

Second most effective, if you can sneak, assassinate important people.

The larger the scale, the less any one melee character matters. It's pretty easy to make yourself more or less immune to damage from those much lower level than you, yes, but targetting is a problem. You can normally kill a few people every round.

Doing this, you'll wipe out, oh...probably a hundred or so people in the course of a battle. Presuming you fight on the front lines, and don't face anything too unusual or crazy.

Casters, on the other hand, entirely alter the course of battles as standard actions at high levels. Wall of fire? Yeah, that's a pretty severe issue for low level troops. They either need to go around and screw up their battle plan, or suffer enough damage to make them easy picking for friendly troops. Cloudkill....the symbols....illusions...wall of force. Yeah, the caster is more important than half a dozen melee types of equivalent level.

...somehow, I fail to see where I asked what to do if I were a caster ...I get that a Wizard has better battlefield control than a melee character. Punching something in the face is just more satisfying to me than throwing fireballs at masses of goblins.

I'm also looking for more in lines of equipment and items, rather than feats and builds.

[Tyndmyr]

If feats and builds are not on the table, what feats and build do you have?

It's a bit hard to give advice regarding gear when we don't even know what level you are, or what available wealth you have.

[Rasman]

If feats and builds are not on the table, what feats and build do you have?

It's a bit hard to give advice regarding gear when we don't even know what level you are, or what available wealth you have.

wealth isn't a huge issue, we have a king backing our army, so we can pretty much get anything we want

the general level of the part is 7-8, and when I say gear, I'm not really talking weapons, armor, etc.

I'm refering more in lines of Caltrops, Marbles, Bag of Boulders, Elixer of Flaming Hands, stuff in that direction of equipment. With applications like covering large areas of the battlefield with Oil and lighting it with a wand or a fireball spell, stuff like that.

[Tyndmyr]

You don't want magical advice, because you prefer punching things in the face to throwing fire at masses of goblins....yet you're talking about using wands and fireball spells?

The most effective melee characters will be those that abuse UMD to pretend being a full caster. Look at the most broken things a wizard can do, and emulate that.

After all, once you're in the "limitless wealth and magical items" area, it's kinda silly to say "that's too magical"

[Bibliomancer]

the general level of the part is 7-8, and when I say gear, I'm not really talking weapons, armor, etc.

What is the size of the army? At 8th level, you probably won't be able to defeat anything with more than 100 1st level warriors (unoptimized ones). Anything significantly higher will simply move around you.

Again, some context would be helpful. If you had, say, a very very very narrow gorge which was the only choke point, you might have some hope.

On a flat plain your only hope is to cover the area from miles in every direction* with caltrops, which probably isn't an option.

*As a circle from your current position. A simple line 20 squares thick could be defeated by building a bridge out of their dead bodies. They could do this in two places and bypass you.

Without context, (numbers, terrain, objectives) the only answer I can give you is that you're doomed.

[JaronK]

Depends on your initial build. And use that money to hire some casters who can throw down Walls of Fire and similar.


JaronK

[Prime32]

are there any elixers that would give that?

There are magic items which grant manouvers, but IIRC you won't be able to use them as frequently as a real ToB class. And the reason I suggested manouvers in the first place was because they aren't magic - spells will still do more damage to wider areas.

The best way to fight an army is weather control since it affects a huge area - again, caster-only. Face it, "punch them one at a time" sucks as a strategy compared to "incinerate everyone in a wide area". Your higher damage output is meaningless when they die in one hit anyway.

One caster combo I'm fond of is Warmage/recaster increasing the radius of meteor swarm to 80ft and then Widening it. Or as I like to call it (when Energy Substituted to cold), "Hraesvelgr".

[Johel]

Hum...

I may have something for you, indeed.
It depends on how much time we have and how much raw iron the King can supply before the battle and how many apprenctice blacksmiths (or anybody who isn't too clumsy) is available to work at the royal forges.

You'll also need :

• Wings of Flying (for yourself)
• People with at least a few ride skill ranks (even commoners can do)
• Griffins, Pegasus, Hippogriff, Giant Owls (and any flying mounts you can get)
• Lot's of bags of holdings.

Da Planz

• As soon as possible, have the royal forges melt thousands of 2lb iron balls.
• Put the balls into Bags of Holding, 125 balls per bag.
• Fly above the enemy army, at an altitude of 1.400 feet, while it's in close formation or at least grouped.
• Empty the bags.
• 20d6 damage for whoever is hit by a falling ball.
• Keep doing that until the army flees.
• Once the enemy is routed, have a good night of sleep.
• Pack your sword and go hunting the fleeing soldiers.

[Rasman]

Hum...

I may have something for you, indeed.
It depends on how much time we have and how much raw iron the King can supply before the battle and how many apprenctice blacksmiths (or anybody who isn't too clumsy) is available to work at the royal forges.

You'll also need :

• Wings of Flying (for yourself)
• People with at least a few ride skill ranks (even commoners can do)
• Griffins, Pegasus, Hippogriff, Giant Owls (and any flying mounts you can get)
• Lot's of bags of holdings.

Da Planz

• As soon as possible, have the royal forges melt thousands of 2lb iron balls.
• Put the balls into Bags of Holding, 125 balls per bag.
• Fly above the enemy army, at an altitude of 1.400 feet, while it's in close formation or at least grouped.
• Empty the bags.
• 20d6 damage for whoever is hit by a falling ball.
• Keep doing that until the army flees.
• Once the enemy is routed, have a good night of sleep.
• Pack your sword and go hunting the fleeing soldiers.

now that's not a bad idea, but I'm not quite sure that our DM will allow it...I don't think it'd have to be that high though, because we're fighting an Army of Worg Riding Goblins, Hobgoblins, Kobalds with two Ogre Generals, one an Ogre Mage.

We're not really gonna have a lot of time to prepare the battlefield though, so I'm looking more to ways to control the battlefield, at least a small portion of it, with some simple items. Items that require UMD aren't out of the question, but it's not a class skill for me, so it'll probably blow up in my face...I tend to have bad luck when bad things are about to happen to me.

[NEO|Phyte]

I'd bring a Bloodstorm Blade that has reached the capstone ability, and has as long-range of a thrown weapon as can be found. Bonus points for sneaking in 5 levels of War Mind so each attack hits 2 squares worth of army.

[Signmaker]

I'd bring a Bloodstorm Blade that has reached the capstone ability, and has as long-range of a thrown weapon as can be found. Bonus points for sneaking in 5 levels of War Mind so each attack hits 2 squares worth of army.

Tack on Quicksheath, a Pandemonic Silver weapon, and a CL18 Control Winds spell. =P

[Johel]

now that's not a bad idea, but I'm not quite sure that our DM will allow it...I don't think it'd have to be that high though, because we're fighting an Army of Worg Riding Goblins, Hobgoblins, Kobalds with two Ogre Generals, one an Ogre Mage.

We're not really gonna have a lot of time to prepare the battlefield though, so I'm looking more to ways to control the battlefield, at least a small portion of it, with some simple items. Items that require UMD aren't out of the question, but it's not a class skill for me, so it'll probably blow up in my face...I tend to have bad luck when bad things are about to happen to me.

Mmh... If there's not much time and one of your character is "creative" in his ideas, there's maybe a way. Not that your DM will like it but...

Barbed tape
The most basic of them require little skill, iron and time.
A two-man team can easily deploy a fence several dozen meters long.
You can easily deploy fences that, while deployed, will be 5-feet thick, 100 feet long and 5 feet tall.
That should make any worg hesitate before it makes its jump... Cavalry blocked, or at least slowed down.

[Rasman]

Mmh... If there's not much time and one of your character is "creative" in his ideas, there's maybe a way. Not that your DM will like it but...

Barbed tape
The most basic of them require little skill, iron and time.
A two-man team can easily deploy a fence several dozen meters long.
You can easily deploy fences that, while deployed, will be 5-feet thick, 100 feet long and 5 feet tall.
That should make any worg hesitate before it makes its jump... Cavalry blocked, or at least slowed down.

I rememeber reading about something similar, but it was a trap that was like a spring that when activated, entangled the target and caused slashing damage and if you tried to get out of it forcefully, it just caused more, but it was something you could stretch like a rope to cover a large area.

[ericgrau]

Great cleave, whirlwind attack, combat reflexes.

More attacks via TWF and/or haste may be good, since you don't need much damage and all your attacks are hitting anyway.

Agreed that some form of DR is nice. A little AC too. Making sure they hit only on a 20 and even then do minimal damage is nice. A tower shield is good for directional arrow immunity (see tower shield rules on how to gain total cover).

[Eldariel]

A tower shield is good for directional arrow immunity.

You give up your attacks if you use Tower Shield for Total Cover. This includes AoOs, special attack actions and so on.

Also, why bother with Whirlwind Attack? Surely full attack with Great Cleave has high enough chances of wiping out everyone around you to make Whirlwind Attack not worth another 3 feats?

[Critical]

Frenzied berserker can probably wipe out the whole army in one round, so definitely it

[dangerprawn]

Where is the battle being fought? What are the key terrain features, both those that will help you and those that will hinder you? How much is "not a lot of time"?

Here's some ideas, but we really need concrete answers to the terrain questions. That will help make or break this fight.

Concertina Wire. You want this. This is a basic no-magic battlefield control tactic, but it requires time to install and knowledge of the terrain. If the enemy troops are stuck on the ground you can funnel them or protect a vital area. Put the wire on top of a steep slope like these fellas, and Calvary will have a hard time jumping over it.

In the game a number of things can serve this funciton. The various Wall spells, particularly Wall of Thorns. Or replicate the concertina wire itself.

Have the King throw down for some Major Creation to create barbed wire. A roll of concertina is about 4ft by 4ft and extended covers about 30-40 yards per roll (IIRC, military types check my numbers). Each casting should get you 3 rolls, following these approximations.

Battlefield Fortification, Sor/Wiz 4, Heroes of Battle. Get as many castings as you can.

If the terrain is not to your liking and the above spell isn't enough, try and swing getting Move Earth, from the PHB. That should let you set up the field roughly in your favor. Then stack your concertina wire on top of the berms from Battlefield Fortifcation. Form an alley to funnel the enemy troops in, and create Stone Shaped shelters for your archers and pikemen to attack them from the sides while the enemy dies in your guantlet.

[Johel]

I rememeber reading about something similar, but it was a trap that was like a spring that when activated, entangled the target and caused slashing damage and if you tried to get out of it forcefully, it just caused more, but it was something you could stretch like a rope to cover a large area.

... Dang !!

Entangle.
It requires nearly no logistic and a wand of it shouldn't be too hard to come by. Each casting means a 80 ft line is blocked for the next minute. A given the range, you could easily cover a front of 800 feet per wand and hold it for about 5 minutes.
A wand cost about 750 gp

Web.
If you can take care of the logistic (that's it, find peasants willing to dig and set several poles every 20 ft along the battlefield), the "Web" spell is even better. With a single wand (and a fast horse), you should be able to cover a 2000 feet front for about 30 minutes.
A wand cost about 4.500 gp

EDIT :
@dangerprawn :
Wall of Thorns is even better, yes.
Although since it's a 5th level spell, that means no wand.
We are looking at a much more powerful kind of magic, therefor.

[ericgrau]

You give up your attacks if you use Tower Shield for Total Cover. This includes AoOs, special attack actions and so on.

Attacking archers with a melee weapon tends to be a bit hard anyway. The point would be to advance, as you can still move. A bow could also work, especially at lower levels (and higher if he's a focused archer). So could AC, DR, etc. Up to him.

Also, why bother with Whirlwind Attack? Surely full attack with Great Cleave has high enough chances of wiping out everyone around you to make Whirlwind Attack not worth another 3 feats?

Unlike great cleave it lets you make attack all opponents at your full attack bonus regardless of whether or not the other attacks miss. Great cleave might let you do so and some attacks may not be at full AB. It also works well with a reach weapon or potion of enlarge person too. Though ya it is a bit feat intensive and not for, say, a low level barbarian.

Come to think of it, other potions will be nice too. This is likely to be a long fight so a couple rounds towards buffs may be worth it.

[Demons_eye]

Get flying and a bag of nets, eat the penalty and rain them down on the enemy's, use Acid, Alchemist’s fire, Tanglefoot bags, and Thunderstone's, other things like marbles and cattledrops help.

[Dogmantra]

EWP: Spiked Chain
Combat Expertise
Improved Trip
Whirlwind attack (and pre-requisites)
(Great) Cleave

May be suboptimal in normal games, but I don't think we're in a real game anymore, Toto.

[Rasman]

Get flying and a bag of nets, eat the penalty and rain them down on the enemy's, use Acid, Alchemist’s fire, Tanglefoot bags, and Thunderstone's, other things like marbles and cattledrops help.

this is fundamentally the line of thinking I was looking for, the sad part is that our Magic Carpet escaped, so we don't have flight...aside from loading myself into a catapult...which I'm considering anyway...

I'm looking towards more, old school, low magic ideas, things like the Braveheart trope where they roll flaming logs or haybales down a hill at the enemy

As for what the battlefield looks like, I don't really know, thus why I'm looking for very general ideas, although it appears that most people haven't read any of the thread and are still throwing out build ideas...