Archery Builds. Know any nice ones?

[Asheram]

I got this sudden urge to play an archer the other night, and I've been looking high and low after some nice builds but I can't seem to find any.

Now, foremost I'd like some optimization builds. Not that I enjoy powergaming, but an archer isn't the best of builds, so I thought if one can find the most powerful one and then scaling down toward the power level of the group, that'd be easier than building up from scratch.

So, got anything nifty?

[Glimbur]

Archivist. Between Divine Power and all the nice Ranger spells for archery, you will be set. This requires Spell Compendium, Heroes of Horror, and the PHB. Other sources increase your power; learn all the spells you can. Remember: knowledge is power.

[taltamir]

you can make a powerful character without spells you know.. specifically, using tome of battle :)

There are some really nice (overpowered) PrCs for archery... when you are firing many arrows at 3000 feet (out of range of any spell btw), you can do quite a lot of hurt to people... the problem is, how you interact with dungeons the the party.

[Edge of Dreams]

Standard builds often include scout for skirmish damage, greater manyshot for more arrows per round, and possibly divine casting with Divine Power for BAB and the Zen Archery feat which lets you use Wisdom instead of Dex for archery.

[Asheram]

Archivist. Between Divine Power and all the nice Ranger spells for archery, you will be set. This requires Spell Compendium, Heroes of Horror, and the PHB. Other sources increase your power; learn all the spells you can. Remember: knowledge is power.

Knowledge is indeed power. :) But I was more interested in the "making people into pincushions" part. ;)

[Chrono22]

Arcane Archer Base Class

This is a base class version of the arcane archer... Very little work is needed to optimize this build. It's effective out of the box. It's not broken- in fact, it's quite a bit weaker than the duskblade in that it has fewer spells per day, weaker proficiencies and cha-based spellcasting. It has a better spell selection, but it doesn't have the kind of spells that allow players to exploit the rules at higher levels.

[taltamir]

First, wow that is some sexy picture of the arcane archer there... Her shirt reminds me of morrigan's from dragon age.

I am told by people who know more then me, that arcane archer is not a good way to go about being an archer...

the only thing it really gives you as an archer is a progressive +1 to +5 enchantment bonus on your arrows. You can and will be buying that anyways (or better, getting greater magic weapon).

the slow progression evocation only spells is not even worth mentioning.

There are much better ways to build an archer of doom.

[Zore]

Totemist with Manticore Belt can get a ridiculous number of attacks though its not quite archery.

And here's a link to the archery handbook for some nice tips for making an archer

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...hp?topic=642.0

[Chrono22]

First, wow that is some sexy picture of the arcane archer there... Her shirt reminds me of morrigan's from dragon age.

I am told by people who know more then me, that arcane archer is not a good way to go about being an archer...

the only thing it really gives you as an archer is a progressive +1 to +5 enchantment bonus on your arrows. You can and will be buying that anyways (or better, getting greater magic weapon).

the slow progression evocation only spells is not even worth mentioning.

There are much better ways to build an archer of doom.

Is the point to play an archer of doom, or to play a character who makes meaningful contributions to the party dynamic in her niche, but still has limitations and weaknesses?
And besides, when people refer to Arcane Archers being weak (I should know, I'm one of them), they are referring to the Arcane Archer prestige class.
Take a second look at the spell list for my class. It's not evocation-only. It's just evocation heavy.

[tyckspoon]

I got this sudden urge to play an archer the other night, and I've been looking high and low after some nice builds but I can't seem to find any.

Now, foremost I'd like some optimization builds. Not that I enjoy powergaming, but an archer isn't the best of builds, so I thought if one can find the most powerful one and then scaling down toward the power level of the group, that'd be easier than building up from scratch.

So, got anything nifty?

Sniper-style archery or just a guy who fights with a bow? If you don't mind dancing around not far out of melee range, the Swift Hunter build is a standard- Scout 4/Ranger 16, the Swift Hunter feat (Comp. Scoundrel) stacks your Scout and Ranger levels to progress Skirmish. Then you either find a way to get free/Swift action movement (Travel Devotion feat, several Tome of Battle maneuvers) or you find a way to make multiple precision-damage capable attacks as a Standard action (Greater Manyshot feat is the standard here.) Plus 16 levels of Ranger for access to those nice Spell Compendium spells. The downside is that your main damage only works within 30 feet.

If you want a sniper-style? There really isn't a lot out there in terms of class features. Mostly you buy the best bow you can afford, buff your Spot check, and try to shoot things down before they get to you- you can achieve a 200+ foot range increment without really trying (a Distance Composite Longbow + the Far Shot feat gets you 330, for example..) which lets you fire ~1000 feet with reasonable accuracy. The problem is IDing your targets from that far away, so get your Spot check up.

[Jera]

Try the Iron Heroes Archer base class. 1.25 bab, and The class also receives an Aim Pool, which is gathered by spending actions targeting a single enemy; the tokens from this pool may be used to power the special abilities of the class. As such, the Archer excels against single, strong enemies. The class also gains a number of bonus feats that must be spent on archery feats (which the class also has excellent access to), allowing Archer characters to diversify their abilities and remain effective against any opponent.

[Soranar]

Are you really interested in using a bow? Because a lot of minions are immune to ranged attacks (because of various simple spells and abilities)

but if you insist I would recommend 2 levels of order of the bow initiate, it prevents AoO on you when you melee with a bow which can be a lifesaver

personally I much prefer using a Warsling or magical throwing weapons that come back since you get to use all of your STR damage on each throw (brutal throw also makes you able to use your STR on to hit too)

finally crossbow sniper lets you use half your dex on damage right away, all you need it to have BAB +1 to qualify and weapon focus in the crossbow of your choice (many races give you nice DEX bonuses like air goblin)

but if you insist on the bow then you don't have many options for more damage

at this point decide if you fight mounted or not (I recommend mounted as you get to move and shoot + you can get flying mounts to add to your options)

the difference in bow is simple, mounted you use composite longbow, on foot use a greatbow (1d8 or 1d10, otherwise very similar)

cragtop archer works well with a flying mount build since you get bonuses from shooting down at people

arcane archer is a trap, you get magical bows with unlimited arrows earlier than the class allows and the enchantments don't stack, secondly bypassing cover and concealment can be done via normal feats that you should get anyway, you also need to waste a level on a spellcasting class you probably don't need and you absolutely need to be an elf or half-elf which reduces your options

any class that adds damage to arrows is good so fighter (ranged builds need a lot of feats), sneak attackers and rangers get decent bonuses going for them

I'm afraid I don't know what ToB applies to ranged fighting

classes that give flight are golden, as such ranged Dragon Disciples can be quite scary considering their STR (although bows are limited in that fashion) or simply not being seen and sneak attacking is also pretty good (straight rogue and variants/multiclasses)

[term1nally s1ck]

TWF splitting aptitude hand crossbows, double hit, Lightning Maces, as many crit threat range boosters as you can find.

[Asheram]

Sniper-style archery or just a guy who fights with a bow?

I was hoping of never getting into melee... But the swift hunter sounds interesting.

Oh. One thing I didn't realize before... What's the rule when you fire +1 arrows from a +2 bow?

[elonin]

Archers are too easily countered to be effective with a difficulty in producing damage output.

Was thinking about scout/wizard/ arcane archer prc but that is really klunky. At the same time ranger 4 scout x sounds good with swift hunter as favored enemies bonus continue to advance and I like scout abilities more than ranger.

[Master_Rahl22]

It's a +2 attack and damage. They are both enhancement bonuses and don't stack. Most people use magic arrows for higher bonuses than they can afford on their weapons, or for other stuff like Bane arrows for limited utility but nice to have effects. I can't really help you with your build, other than to suggest that you find some way to fly/move really fast, cause Wind Wall is a 3rd level spell that makes you useless, and there are more than just that one that can do the same thing.

[Flickerdart]

What you may want to consider is getting yourself as big as possible and then using your enormous weapons to punch through the Wind Walls and the like. Note that siege engines explicitly pierce it, and a Ballista is just a Huge crossbow. Or you could go for a rock-throwing build, maybe some Hulking Hurler without the "I throw planets" shenanigans.

[AirGuitarGod32]

I first suggest a Dark non-Psi Thri-Kreen (2la, same as Drow) Consider 2 bows + Quiver(s) of Infinite Arrows + Free HiPS

then do the Following:

Thri-Kreen 2/Wilderness Rogue 3/CotW Ranger 5/Order of the Bow Initiate 10

Yes, there is no magic, but here's my few feat selection requirements:

Exotic Proficiency: Greatbow
Archery Track (Including Greater Manyshot)
Weapon Focus

Here's my items selection:
two Distance Greatbows
a Quiver of Infinite Adamantine Arrows or Mithril Arrows or + whatever arrows
various poisons (I suggest Drow and Monsterous Scorpion)
the archery goggles
leather armor that has that one magic property that boosts hiding

here's the setup:

Use Thri-Kreen's +30 jump check to leap to a tree
HiPS
Fire Volley of Arrows from both bows
leap to another tree
repeat steps 2-4

[Flickerdart]

Non-psi Thri-kreen are 2 RHD, 1 LA, not 2 LA. At least that's what SS says, and I'm not sure if there's a newer nonpsionic variant.

[AirGuitarGod32]

Non-psi Thri-kreen are 2 RHD, 1 LA, not 2 LA. At least that's what SS says, and I'm not sure if there's a newer nonpsionic variant.

Good Point. Drop the scout stuff for the Thri-kreen RHD

and by 2la, I meant W/ Dark

[snoopy13a]

It's a +2 attack and damage. They are both enhancement bonuses and don't stack. Most people use magic arrows for higher bonuses than they can afford on their weapons, or for other stuff like Bane arrows for limited utility but nice to have effects. I can't really help you with your build, other than to suggest that you find some way to fly/move really fast, cause Wind Wall is a 3rd level spell that makes you useless, and there are more than just that one that can do the same thing.

I think Wind Wall's utility against arrows isn't as pronounced as it first appears:

1) Wind Wall cannot be used horizontally (so you can run underneath a flying spell user and shoot straight up)
2) It has a round per level duration
3) The caster is wasting his turn to negate an enemy archer. This seems to be a poor use of resources in most circumstances
4) Wind Wall is a relatively odd spell to prepare unless the wizard is high level and has lots of level 3 spell slots


It is kinda like the fly spell. Flying is really effective when your opponents are in an open field but in a dungeon with a 10' ceiling or in a location where the enemy can take cover under trees or in caves it isn't as good.

[Triaxx]

A feat you'll likely find useful, even though it's Homebrew:

Overdraw
Prereq: Str 15, Dex 17
Effect: A character with overdraw may draw their bow farther than normal, sacrificing accuracy for the potential to do more damage. For each two BAB sacrificed, one damage is added to the arrow's potential damage. Damage stacks with Composite bows, but may not be used on crossbows.
Normal: May not overdraw bow.

[Barlen]

If you want a decent basic one try this:
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Hawkeye_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)

Not mine, just spotted it a while back. The 2 levels of OoBI helps the weaker saves a bit and gets you close combat shot.

[JaronK]

Now, foremost I'd like some optimization builds. Not that I enjoy powergaming, but an archer isn't the best of builds, so I thought if one can find the most powerful one and then scaling down toward the power level of the group, that'd be easier than building up from scratch.

So, got anything nifty?

Okay, you said most powerful, so I'm going to do it. Don't complain if it's too much!

Human Feat Varient Rogue 2/Fighter 2/Warblade 16 with two flaws with Point Blank Shot, Hand Crossbow Mastery, EWP: Great Crossbow, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus: Light Mace, Lightning Mace, Improved Unarmed Strike, Roundabout Kick, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Woodland Archery, Improved Critical: Hand Crossbow, and a few fun feats from the Warblade list (Improved Initiative is the only one you care about).

Why is this so good? Because you get a pair of extra arms (grafts would do it, and there's a few other ways) and then dual wield a pair of Aptitude Splitting Great Crossbows. Aptitude makes it so that any feat that applies to only one type of weapon applies to the Great Crossbows, so now Hand Crossbow Mastery (reload as a free action), Lightning Mace (when you threaten a critical, you get another attack), Roundabout Kick (when you confirm a critical, you get another attack), and Improved Critical (double crit range) all apply to your Great Crossbows. You have a base of 16 attacks (4 standard, 3 TWF, 1 Rapidshot, all doubled by splitting). Each attack has a 30% chance to threaten and thus get two more attacks (splitting), and if you pumped your Dex and Int should have a very decent chance of successfully critting and thus granting two more attacks. You're of course in Blood in the Water stance, so you get +1 to hit and damage every time you crit, further ensuring that you confirm your crits.

For maneuvers, you'll want Raging Mongoose, Dancing Mongoose, and Time Stands Still, plus White Raven Tactics and either Lion's Roar or one of the save boosters (just in case). When you activate TSS and Raging Mongoose, you'll be putting out 48 shots base. But either way, there's a decent chance that any series of shots just ballons up until all targets are dead (and when that happens you'll have a HUGE bonus to hit and damage for a minute).

It's a bit less cheesy if you just go with Hand Crossbows, but you get fewer critical hits that way.

Anyway, that's pretty much the best archery build I know of for raw damage output.

Another fun one that's a bit more reasonable is to use Cloistered Cleric with a dip into PrC Ranger for access to ranger spells, then using DMM Persist to persist Guided Shot, Divine Power, Righteous Might, and a few other solid buff spells. Now use a Footbow (Bracers of Archery mean you don't need a feat for this, combine them with Strongarm Bracers so you can use a bigger bow) and cast Chain of Eyes on whoever in the party has the best spot score or is most likely to see enemies first. Use a flight spell of some kind (there's some great persistable ones that are also buffs) and fly far above the party, then when they see an enemy fire away. You'll have great damage per shot and your enemies will be unable to see you. Obviously when you get into a dungeon you have to get much closer, but you still do a ton of damage.

For one last concept, there's Factotum archers. Dip two levels of Swordsage for Assassin's Stance, use a Splitting Greatbow of Assassination, use a Tooth of Leraje to make it +5, and then use Minor Creation for endless Black Lotus Poison. Combine this with Terrifying Strike and Sickening Strike so every shot gives -4 to saves, and you're a poisonous assassin. Stuff that's immune to poison is annoying, but you've got plenty of other abilities to work with anyway (you're a Factotum) and with Darkstalker you can totally do the stealthy sniper thing. Remember that sniper's shot will let you activate your sneak attack based abilities at long range.

JaronK

[Asheram]

Well, after much considering I've finally decided to the swifthunter version. Scout-ranger.

Thank you all for all the help. :)

[Sstoopidtallkid]

One thing no one has mentioned yet: Raptoran. Automatic proficiency with the best bow in the game and free Ex Flight, for getting around annoyances like small forests in the path of your arrows.

Now, what do you want to do?
Swift Hunter is simple, but damage scales slower than even a Rogue's, and falls prey to the same immunities, not to mention keeping you within 30' of the enemy.
Cragtop shenanigans can get you a range in the vicinity of several thousand feet, but that is generally wasted when your party is focused on ranges of ~5 feet.
Archivist and Artificer are the most complicated, but also have the most raw power. For an Archivist(since I'm not qualified to comment on an Artificer), you want max Wis, max knowledge skills, wis to attack, Know Devotion, Dark Knowledge, and then turn yourself into an Arrow Demon(MMIII) and abuse every swift-action ranger spell you can find to fill the air with a hail of shrapnel the likes of which would make Detritus cower.

[Eldariel]

- Some handy martial builds (using 3.0 material)
- Ranger/Warblade/Eternal Blade for using the few martial maneuvers that work with bows.
- Swift Hunter (Ranger/Scout with possible Cleric-dip for Travel Devotion)
- Cleric 20; Persist buffs, go to town
- Archivist 20; see above, add Ranger-spells
- Bard 8/Arcane Archer 2/Sublime Chord 2/Sacred Exorcist 4/Abjurant Champion 4; quintessential Arcane Archer, makes great use of Imbue Arrow and various similar abilities
- Psychic Warrior 20 or Ranger 2/Psion 4/Slayer 10/Anarchic Initiate 4 or similar; standard Psionic Archer
- Rogue 19/Barbarian 1; basic Rogue Archer
- Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 5 (or Incantatrix 3/whatever 2); Arcane Rogue Archer
- Factotum 11/Chameleon 9; Factotum Archer


Whatcha want more on?

[Zaq]

Out of curiosity, is it possible to make an archer that has, you know, more options? Not from a build perspective, but from a round-to-round perspective? Because I've played a couple archery-style builds before (briefly, to be sure, but still) and nearly fell asleep every time. I mean, I guess Archivist Archer or whatever has more choices, but most of those choices involve, you know, not shooting a bow.

Maybe I'm just hard to please.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Out of curiosity, is it possible to make an archer that has, you know, more options? Not from a build perspective, but from a round-to-round perspective? Because I've played a couple archery-style builds before (briefly, to be sure, but still) and nearly fell asleep every time. I mean, I guess Archivist Archer or whatever has more choices, but most of those choices involve, you know, not shooting a bow.

Short answer: No.
long answer: It's a more-or-less martial build that isn't ToB. So, no.

[Eldariel]

Out of curiosity, is it possible to make an archer that has, you know, more options? Not from a build perspective, but from a round-to-round perspective? Because I've played a couple archery-style builds before (briefly, to be sure, but still) and nearly fell asleep every time. I mean, I guess Archivist Archer or whatever has more choices, but most of those choices involve, you know, not shooting a bow.

Maybe I'm just hard to please.

Yeah, e.g. Factotum Archer can be perfectly respectable at range (more-so if using Sniper's Shot + Cunning Strike) but able to switch to devastating Manyshot flurries (courtesy of Cunning Surge) on close range. Also great Skirmisher with the +Factotum Level to one Hide-check meaning you can Snipe at least once, and access to spells to support all that.

Arcane Archer has the choice of which spell to use as a payload each time and has the following ways to alter his attacks:
Arcane Boost
Divine Might
Imbue Arrow

Eternal Blade Archer has a variety of attack patterns though the most efficient one does tend to be Time Stands Still for full attack; still Immediate Action full attacks and such that kick in on higher levels, along with the option of going melee do keep things interesting.

And Psionics definitely do this, combining Fell Shot with Manyshot, Psionic Shot with Snipes, and various means of boosting your damage (Expansion with large weapons, Offensive Precognition and Prescience, Metamorphosis, etc.).

And yeah. Purely martial archers have nothing but the Ranged X-line feats from CWar and those are pretty expensive to start with (feat-wise; you'll never use them enough to make 'em worth the payment). Stuff like Penetrating Shot, and various weapon abilities and different arrows can make things more interesting though. Still, this is why I prefer caster archers, or homebrew ToB archers (with ranged schools).