Monster mash

[*.*.*.*]

I'm playing in a campaign where I've grown tired of my current character and I'm nabbing a new character next session. I'm thinking about playing a monster PC since my DM is being a bro. He has this little houserule where you can play any playable monster, but ignore it's HD or LA(whichever is lower). I'm taking a healer cohort to offset basically no casting(I don't want a caster). What I first thought of playing was a lolth-touched(reflavored) half-dragon(black) War Troll. However, I took a look at the abyssal drake in the draconomicon and became quite interested in it. Any suggestions?


All books(3rd party,dragon, and even 3.0)
The party consists of a Mystic ranger/swifthunter, monk, daring outlaw, and a homebrewed racial progression Nymph(druid casting and not very balanced).
I'm looking for an extremely tough and kick ass monster combo(class suggestion greatly appreciated as well)

[Dogmantra]

Play a Pixie Rogue. Greater invisibility at will.

1 Racial HD, +4 LA (or +6, actually, might as well), so "Oh," you might be thinking, "that's going to be really underlevelled."

A pixie character exchanges its 1 HD of fey for its first class level.

So basically you can play a +6 LA character for a total ECL equal to Character Level. Perhaps not the best race possible, but pretty darn awesome anyway.

[Temotei]

Play a Pixie Rogue. Greater invisibility at will.

1 Racial HD, +4 LA (or +6, actually, might as well), so "Oh," you might be thinking, "that's going to be really underlevelled."


So basically you can play a +6 LA character for a total ECL equal to Character Level. Perhaps not the best race possible, but pretty darn awesome anyway.

Plus, you're really small, which gives you a nice bonus to hide.

[mabriss lethe]

if you get to ignore either the LA or RD, perhaps the Ogre mage. keep your 5 racial HD. Giant HD aren't so bad, and you get benfits better than a lot of level 5 characters. nix the LA and maybe go ToB since your Giant HD would count towards your Initiator level.

EDIT: I just saw the "whichever is lower" clause. still a pretty nice build, but not quite as nice as before.

[Moriato]

Rakshasa sorcerer.

Ordinary not worth playing because of the 7 hd and 7 LA, but those hit dice count as sorcerer levels.

So a Rakshasa 7 / sorc 1 is a level 8 sorc for all intents and purposes. Plus detect thoughts at will, change shape, DR 15/good AND piercing, and SR 27, and bonuses of +2 - +6 for every stat.

Good stuff.

[Tanuki Tales]

Since the Pixie PC technically loses it's RHD the minute it takes a level, doesn't that mean if he played a PC one it'd lose the LA what with no RHD existing for it anymore?

[awa]

wow are you playing in a really optimized party? Are other characters doing similar things if not playing some of these critters will seriously unbalance your party.

Take the rashka example its also got outsider hit dice so it has a good base attack bonus, all good saves, 8+ skill points a level (and almost certainly an int bonus) not to mention all the other abbilities that have already been mentioned
and put that into a party with a human sorcerer or god forbid a half orc monk and your looking at some serious imbalance

[Temotei]

Outsiders make for good scouts because they don't need to eat or sleep.

Punctuation is nice.

[*.*.*.*]

Since the Pixie PC technically loses it's RHD the minute it takes a level, doesn't that mean if he played a PC one it'd lose the LA what with no RHD existing for it anymore?

No, I would keep the LA. I drop whatever is the lowest.

EX.

Lolth-touched half-dragon war troll

HD-12
LA-6(war troll)+1(Lolth-touched)+3(half-dragon)=10

So I would drop the LA and play with the HD

wow are you playing in a really optimized party? Are other characters doing similar things if not playing some of these critters will seriously unbalance your party.

I NEED a strong critter or else death is very easy. My DM has a habit of throwing us in the middle of giant wars and makes us fight monsters who are our ECLx2. The swift hunter(lesser fey'ri) was completely built by me for my Girlfriend and I had a large part in the daring outlaw's build(whisper gnome). The monk is useless and has retrained himself three times now. The Nymph is overpowered as hell(Unearthly grace is insane when abused).

[Dogmantra]

No, I would keep the LA. I drop whatever is the lowest.

Even if the RHD = 0?

[*.*.*.*]

Even if the RHD = 0?

Especially if the RHD=0

[drengnikrafe]

When you pick one, I would strongly suggest making sure that the LA is the lower of the two, thereby allowing you the bonuses that come with RHD, as opposed to just having those levels missing.

[*.*.*.*]

When you pick one, I would strongly suggest making sure that the LA is the lower of the two, thereby allowing you the bonuses that come with RHD, as opposed to just having those levels missing.

It's what I had planned on and my example(and fall back) creature does this.

[Draz74]

Couatl! You're stuck with 9 Racial Hit Dice, but ... they give you d8 HP, full BAB, 8 skill points/level, and 9th-level Sorcerer casting, so that's not exactly painful. You also pick up flight, alternate form (for disguises), a poison bite, great grappling abilities, and telepathy.

It's an extremely overpowered race if you find a way to drop the +7 LA.

[*.*.*.*]

Couatl! You're stuck with 9 Racial Hit Dice, but ... they give you d8 HP, full BAB, 8 skill points/level, and 9th-level Sorcerer casting, so that's not exactly painful. You also pick up flight, alternate form (for disguises), a poison bite, great grappling abilities, and telepathy.

It's an extremely overpowered race if you find a way to drop the +7 LA.

I could also throw on Phrenic as well, thus making it 9 HD and 9 LA(the Dm said I get to choose which to drop if they are the same). Although I said I didn't want a caster, I'll ponder it and the Rakshasa(though the rakshasa's alignment is a problem)

[Forevernade]

The Rakshasa would be fun to play IMO. And Lawful Evil doesnt mean 'hate everyone in the party'. You could be playing a bound Outsider, so that your deal with the party is to help them, for a bond in return. The bond could be 'their deepest secret', or their truename, both of which are useless to you personally, and only serve a higher being of evil. So you can turn all evil tendencies outward and away from the party, and still be a good player.

[Kallisti]

If you're high enough level, Black Ethergaunt is just plain wicked.

[*.*.*.*]

If you're high enough level, Black Ethergaunt is just plain wicked.

We're ECL 9 and my DM knows of Black Ethergaunts, he told me "HELL NO"

[Kallisti]

We're ECL 9 and my DM knows of Black Ethergaunts, he told me "HELL NO"

OK. ECL 9 puts the kibosh on most of the worst shenanigans.

Rakshasa and Couatl are good ideas, though. Especially Rakshasa.

[*.*.*.*]

OK. ECL 9 puts the kibosh on most of the worst shenanigans.

Rakshasa and Couatl are good ideas, though. Especially Rakshasa.

I'll consider them if I need spellcasting, but I'd like to explore melee possibilities as well(my DM is extremely cruel).

[Copacetic]

The Rakshasa would be fun to play IMO. And Lawful Evil doesnt mean 'hate everyone in the party'. You could be playing a bound Outsider, so that your deal with the party is to help them, in for a bond in return. The bond could be 'their deepest secret', or their truename, both of which are useless to you personally, and only serve a higher being of evil. So you can turn all evil tendencies outward and away from the party, and still be a good player.

You are my new best friend. Thank you.

In other news, I second the Couatl.

[awa]

my understanding an i might be wrong about it is that if you regenerate and are undead attacks that you would regenerate do nothing at all. I believe your half black dragon war troll is immune to all real damage so make him necropolitan hes immune to damage period.

Theirs feats and probably items to boots turn resistance. This charecter would be immune to damage so losing the con wont matter and being immune to damage and the normal undead immunities will make this charecter hard to hurt.

Well its still vulnerable to solid fog and similar things it's an extremely powerful non caster.

[*.*.*.*]

I believe your half black dragon war troll is immune to all real damage so make him necropolitan hes immune to damage period.

Regeneration doesn't work on creatures without a con score

[awa]

really? I checked the srd and didn't see anything mentioning it.

Edit nope never mind i found it.

[Kallisti]

If you want melee find an outsider with low HD and LA and then advance it up to 9 HD, stack on templates until you get 9 LA, and scratch the LA. You can get a pretty impressive AC and Strength that way. For templates, I recommend Necropolitan followed by Evolved Undead eight times, assuming you can get starting LA of +0 (lesser aasimar, perhaps). Massive Strength, massive charisma, massive fast healing, and a slew of spell-like abilities.

[awa]

is lesser asimar a outsider and wouldn't it advance by class level anyway

[Brendan]

Trumpet archon has either a +7 or 8 LA and casts as a 14th level cleric, as well as all the other fun plusses and abilities.

[drengnikrafe]

This thread reminds me of the time my DM said he would ignore all LA. When I showed him my build, he immediately went back on that. Good thing, too. I attached a whole horde of templates. At least he learned his lesson.

[*.*.*.*]

Trumpet archon has either a +7 or 8 LA and casts as a 14th level cleric, as well as all the other fun plusses and abilities.

I'm trying to steer clear of celestials(or else I'd play a Ghaele)


Ultraloths look pretty cool right now, but it has too many HD for its abilities. Any other powerful fiends with LAs?

[Jack_Simth]

I'll consider them if I need spellcasting, but I'd like to explore melee possibilities as well(my DM is extremely cruel).

Umm... a Couatl has 9 HD, +7 LA. Full BAB, d8 HD, +8 Str, +6 Dex, +4 Con, +6 Int, +8 Wis, +6 Cha, +9 Natural Armor. You'll be at least as competent as a normal Fighter of your level.

A Rashaka has 7 HD, +7 LA. Full BAB, d8 HD, +2 Strength, +4 Dexterity, +6 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, +6 Charisma, +9 Natural Armor, DR 15/Good and Piercing.

The Rashaka's better at defense (due to the DR that's hard to pierce), the Couatl's better at offense (due to the strength). Both will be HD based, and both are Casters at least as good as their hit dice.

If you want a more pure melee route, look at some of the True Dragons.

Also:
Can you advance a critter by hit dice prior to nuking the LA? Being able to do so would open up some options - Say, a Nymph advanced by 1 hit die:
+7 RHD, +7 LA, casts as a 7th level Druid, Blinding Beauty in case you're swarmed by humanoids, Charisma to AC and Saves, +6 Dex, +2 Con, +6 Int, +6 Wis, +8 Cha, DR 10/Cold Iron. Fey hit dice unfortunately have a very low BAB, so you wouldn't do so hot in melee, but it's otherwise a decent route.