Forbidden schools... (3.x and Pathfinder question)

[onthetown]

If it's not an actual rule, then it's always been a house rule from my DM that wizards can't scribe spells, memorize, and cast spells from their spellbooks of their forbidden schools. It makes sense to me, so I've trusted my DM and not really gone searching to see if I can do it with a penalty in 3.5. In Pathfinder, however (the latest conversion of our campaign), they've made it so that you can cast forbidden spells, just at a bit of a penalty. I like.

My questions are: In 3.5 (where, as far as I understand it, you can't cast or memorize forbidden schools), is the wizard able to cast from scrolls that somebody else made of their forbidden school, and are they able to craft potions of spells from their forbidden schools? Is there a penalty for doing either of those of your forbidden school in Pathfinder, as if you were casting from your spellbook?

One of my wizard's forbidden schools is Abjuration (biggest mistake of my life), so I spend a lot of money on protective potions. It'd be nice to cut the cost and just be able to craft the potions myself, not to mention I'd love to buy some scrolls. I guess my reasoning for hoping that it's possible is because she's not actually memorizing the spell to her spellbook, just making a potion that mimicks the effects. As for the scroll thing, I have no idea. Blind hope.

[Blackfang108]

Quoth the SRD:

Spells of the prohibited school or schools are not available to the wizard, and she can’t even cast such spells from scrolls or fire them from wands. She may not change either her specialization or her prohibited schools later.

[DragoonWraith]

Crafting things that use spells requires casting the spells. In 3.5, at least, you can't. Further, you can't use spell trigger or spell completion items with spells from those schools, either (so no staves, wands, or scrolls), though I imagine you could UMD those items like any other spells not on your spell list. So yeah, potions, command-activated items, those are the sorts of things that you can get to use those spells, otherwise, no.

[taltamir]

you can't craft with it, you can't scribe of it, you can't activate scrolls of it, you can't activate wands of it...

although, I think using UMD (use magic device) you COULD do the above things with a UMD check.

[Bagelz]

you CAN craft items with spells that you cannot cast. You need to employ someone to cast them for you.
I vaugely remember (note that means i could be wrong) seeing how to make a certain golem and noticing that it requires spells both on the wizard list and the cleric list (ie impossible for any singleclass caster to do except for specific domains for certain clerics).
Just as you can aid someone with a skill check, you can aid a crafter by supplying some of their spells.

[onthetown]

Thanks guys

So yeah, potions, command-activated items, those are the sorts of things that you can get to use those spells, otherwise, no.

Do you mean I can craft those items, or just that I can use them?

Since we're in Pathfinder now, it seems I'll be able to scribe scrolls and use wands and whatnot from my forbidden school... just at a penalty to make or use them. I'll have to have a look through my DM's Pathfinder book next time he's here.