Good alternative to Keep on the Shadowfell? And short 4e rant.

[Ozreth]

So I recently started DMing my first 4e game. Still very skeptical but trying to keep an open mind.

Anyways, we ran Kobold Hall. Decent module, short and sweet. Anyways we want to keep running some published modules until we get the hang of things. Everything I read tells me that Keep on the Shadowfell is SUPER dry and boring. Are there any other level 1 4e published modules out there that are worth it? Thanks!

On a side note, it seems to be the small things that are bugging me with this edition. Skill consolidation, boring saving throws that don't relate to modifiers, druids wildshape dosen't change anything about the actual being, just gives you some differnet powers, but you dont feel like you are turning into a bear. The list goes on, and when they add up I guess they arent such small things, but Im going to keep pushing ahead.

[Kurald Galain]

Are there any other level 1 4e published modules out there that are worth it?

I would recommend going to the RPGA site and downloading half a dozen low-level adventures from there. They're free, and while there are a few duds in there, most of them are decent to good. I would recommend the BALD, WATE, and CORE series myself. The adventures are easy to transpose into another world if you don't play in the forgotten realms.

On a side note, it seems to be the small things that are bugging me with this edition.

Well, you're the DM, so you can houserule whatever it is that you dislike, or bring in your favorite rule from 3E, 2E, WFRP or Call of Cthulhu. Don't be overly cautious about breaking game balance: the odds are good that whatever you change won't unbalance anything.

[Pramxnim]

I've heard good things about the Chaos Scar series of adventures published in Dungeon magazines, they're mostly meant for 1st level characters and so should fit in right away. The Scales of War adventure path is also an alternative to KoTS (with Rescue at Rivenroar being the first adventure, meant for level 1 characters)

[Swordgleam]

Saving throws can get a little more interesting, since various class and race features give you benefits to saves vs charm, vs fear, etc.

The saves and skill are two things about 4e that I initially went "this is really stupid" and then came to like a lot. Because with the saving throws, what you're getting would happen anyway - the PCs gain a level and give their enemies -2 to saves, but their enemies are stronger now and gain +2 to saves, etc. The game is acknowledging that will happen and making things simpler by just saying "beat ten." And when an enemy does have a bonus to saves, it's a big deal.

The binary nature of the skills bothered me at first, but they still advance every level and it's not too hard to pick up training in more skills from feats. You can still choose which skills to prioritize. Now you just need to seek out items to give you skill bonuses instead of pouring all your skill points into one or two skills.

I rather like the consolidation - it reminds me a little of Iron Heroes' skill groups, which I love. It's nice to just take one skill and say that my character can run, jump and swim competently. But I miss Craft and Perform.

[Ozreth]

Saving throws can get a little more interesting, since various class and race features give you benefits to saves vs charm, vs fear, etc.

The saves and skill are two things about 4e that I initially went "this is really stupid" and then came to like a lot. Because with the saving throws, what you're getting would happen anyway - the PCs gain a level and give their enemies -2 to saves, but their enemies are stronger now and gain +2 to saves, etc. The game is acknowledging that will happen and making things simpler by just saying "beat ten." And when an enemy does have a bonus to saves, it's a big deal.

The binary nature of the skills bothered me at first, but they still advance every level and it's not too hard to pick up training in more skills from feats. You can still choose which skills to prioritize. Now you just need to seek out items to give you skill bonuses instead of pouring all your skill points into one or two skills.

I rather like the consolidation - it reminds me a little of Iron Heroes' skill groups, which I love. It's nice to just take one skill and say that my character can run, jump and swim competently. But I miss Craft and Perform.

Thanks guys! So scales of war and chaos scar? Are they both published in Dungeon only?

And Swordgleam thanks for that bit of clarification. The more I hear the more it seems like you really have to get some long, solid playtime in with 4e before it all starts to make sense, but when it does its great. Or at least I hope so : )

I miss perform and craft as well : (

[FoE]

The Chaos Scar is actually a small setting filled with a variety of mini-adventures throughout the location, some of which I understand WotC are actually soliciting from readers. They're meant to be run with as little preparation as possible. They're only available with a subscription, as is the Scales of War adventure path.

Regarding the latter, however, I believe the first couple of adventures are available for free. Personally, I'm not a fan of the first adventure, which is a really heavy dungeon crawl, although I appreciate the 'save the hostages' angle.

[Ozreth]

The Chaos Scar is actually a small setting filled with a variety of mini-adventures throughout the location, some of which I understand WotC are actually soliciting from readers. They're meant to be run with as little preparation as possible. They're only available with a subscription, as is the Scales of War adventure path.

Regarding the latter, however, I believe the first couple of adventures are available for free. Personally, I'm not a fan of the first adventure, which is a really heavy dungeon crawl, although I appreciate the 'save the hostages' angle.

you arent a fan of scales of war or chaos scar?

[dsmiles]

Good alternative to Keep on the Shadowfell?

How do you feel about writing your own adventures?

[FoE]

I can't really give you an opinion on the Chaos Scar, as I haven't read the adventures. I just wanted to let you know it's less an adventure path and more a mini-setting with a valley full of mini-adventures.

I only read the first few adventures of Scales of War. I liked Siege of Bordrin's Watch (the second adventure) and The Shadow Rift of Umbraforge (the third adventure). I just didn't care all that much for Rescue at Rivenroar, the first adventure.

[Ozreth]

I can't really give you an opinion on the Chaos Scar, as I haven't read the adventures. I just wanted to let you know it's less an adventure path and more a mini-setting with a valley full of mini-adventures.

I only read the first few adventures of Scales of War. I liked Siege of Bordrin's Watch (the second adventure) and The Shadow Rift of Umbraforge (the third adventure). I just didn't care all that much for Rescue at Rivenroar, the first adventure.

Gotcha, thanks : )

[Yakk]

On a side note, it seems to be the small things that are bugging me with this edition. Skill consolidation,

The missing skills (craft, perform, etc) can be covered by backgrounds, btw. There are a number written by WotC already (such as a crafting background that lets you make magic items without the ritual).

boring saving throws that don't relate to modifiers,

Defences are what saving throws where in 3e.

Saving throws in 4e are kept mostly modifier-less in order to reduce the amount of state attached to continued conditions: Roll 10 or higher to save is the default. Some creatures and players apply modifiers, but these are special cases.

druids wildshape dosen't change anything about the actual being, just gives you some differnet powers, but you dont feel like you are turning into a bear.

As the druid gains levels, they gain wildshape upgrades in the form of utility powers.

At level 1, the druid's bear isn't ... quite right. :)

[Ozreth]

The missing skills (craft, perform, etc) can be covered by backgrounds, btw. There are a number written by WotC already (such as a crafting background that lets you make magic items without the ritual).

Defences are what saving throws where in 3e.

Saving throws in 4e are kept mostly modifier-less in order to reduce the amount of state attached to continued conditions: Roll 10 or higher to save is the default. Some creatures and players apply modifiers, but these are special cases.

As the druid gains levels, they gain wildshape upgrades in the form of utility powers.

At level 1, the druid's bear isn't ... quite right. :)

This is all good news, looks like Im really going to have to get my hands dirty and start digging through all of the material. Thanks a billion : )

[Mystic Muse]

so scales of war is through Dragon only?

[Ozreth]

So I checked out backgrounds and I see the artisan background which I assume is the crafting one you spoke of. It says nothing being able to create magic items without rituals etc. Most of these backgrounds are just fluff that have no game benefits.