Knowledge: (geography)?

[deuxhero]

I don't ever recall this coming up in mechanics for anything but the horizon walker (a quick search of the SRD says only Kraken and epic monsters even have ranks in it). What can this do outside of core? Any reason to not fold it into Know:Nature?

[Foryn Gilnith]

1) There's stuff like political geography that I'm pretty sure is part of K (geo)
2) Knowledge (nature) is already ahead of many others in "power".

Maybe combine it with Knowledge (local) [which I don't see the point of, in light of Gather Information). Or split it up between (nobility and royalty) [politics], (dungeoneering), (nature), and (local)?

[deuxhero]

Point taken. Fusing Local, Geography and Royality into 1 skill (Know:Countries?) could be intresting. A&E and Dungeoneering don't really seem like 2 skills in the first place.

That said, is there anything outside of core that requires ranks in it?

[Dr Bwaa]

I agree with you on A&E and Dungeoneering, but I think Geography and Nature are definitely distinct. Geography seems like it ought to consume Local though (because Know: Local is such a bizarre, unreasonable skill. "No, I don't know anything about Farawayville, but I'm sure once we get there I'll be much more knowledgable!")

[deuxhero]

I do know that Roy Greenhilt is the king ofNowhereatall!

>_>

[Crow]

Knowledge (Geography) would encompass such skills as knowing the best way through a rough mountain pass, being able to locate the best site for a city or fortress, deciding what is the best place to meet and force the enemy army to do battle, the best place to spring an ambush, which coves are safe harbors and which ones are strewn with reefs, which parts of the forest are navigable and which are boggy defiles, etc...etc...etc...

The difference between Geography and Local, is that local describes legends, personalities, inhabitants, laws, customs, and traditions, of the place you're learning about. Geography is all about the lay of the land and being able to identify the features mentioned in new, unfamiliar, and unexplored lands, rather than just knowing about them in the lands in which you are familiar.


A thoroughly useful skill.

[Dr Bwaa]

Knowledge (Geography) would encompass such skills as knowing the best way through a rough mountain pass, being able to locate the best site for a city or fortress, deciding what is the best place to meet and force the enemy army to do battle, the best place to spring an ambush, which coves are safe harbors and which ones are strewn with reefs, which parts of the forest are navigable and which are boggy defiles, etc...etc...etc...

The difference between Geography and Local, is that local describes legends, personalities, inhabitants, laws, customs, and traditions, of the place you're learning about. Geography is all about the lay of the land and being able to identify the features mentioned in new, unfamiliar, and unexplored lands, rather than just knowing about them in the lands in which you are familiar.


A thoroughly useful skill.

Oh, I understand the intent of Knowledge (Local). I just think it's a silly concept as something you could put skill points into. You end up with one of two conundrums: either the DM decides those skill points you put in Knowledge (Local) back in Somewhere no longer apply here in Anywhere, in which case you've got X totally useless skill points, or else the better you get at Knowing (Local) stuff, the better you automatically are at it, everywhere. Neither is a great option IMO (besides, the Bard always is the one with Knowledge (Local), which is so much worse than Bardic Knowledge anyway! )

[Foryn Gilnith]

Knowledge (Geography) would encompass such skills as knowing the best way through a rough mountain pass, being able to locate the best site for a city or fortress, deciding what is the best place to meet and force the enemy army to do battle, the best place to spring an ambush, which coves are safe harbors and which ones are strewn with reefs, which parts of the forest are navigable and which are boggy defiles, etc...etc...etc...

Half of those can be solved by divinations, a fourth of those are below the scale of most campaigns, and a fourth of those are beyond the scale of most campaigns.

Byut yeah, Geography is extremely useful if you were a non-adventurer, especially a mage.

[ericgrau]

While it has some macro-natural aspects - i.e., what kind of region are you in - geography is at least as political (boundaries, peoples). If anything I'd fold it in with local, as both are things you might see in a travel book when going somewhere.

Geography is one of the many skills that see little uses thanks to railroading. If the DM wants you to go somewhere, he'll shove the clues in your direction.

[Crow]

Half of those can be solved by divinations, a fourth of those are below the scale of most campaigns, and a fourth of those are beyond the scale of most campaigns.

Byut yeah, Geography is extremely useful if you were a non-adventurer, especially a mage.

Care to be a little more specific? I can understand how placing a city or directing an army is above the scale of most campaigns, but which options are below?

Which Divinations are you going to use to replace the skill, besides Commune with Nature? The druid doesn't even get access to it until 9th level (and the ranger much later), and you aren't guaranteed to have a druid around when you need one.

[Foryn Gilnith]

That wasn't rigorous criticism, and the magic part wasn't the important part. The point is that, while K (geography) has awesome uses, several (of the more awesome) uses will rarely see a game.

[Crow]

That wasn't rigorous criticism, and the magic part wasn't the important part. The point is that, while K (geography) has awesome uses, several (of the more awesome) uses will rarely see a game.

Oh definitely, but in the right campaign, it can be amazing. I was asking out of curiousity, mostly.

[The Deej]

Definitely depends on DM/Campaign.

I once had a DM that really loved to emphasize use of skills, including every single knowledge. Geography came up for navigational purposes when an artifact teleported us to the middle of a desert. On another continent.