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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default I got your nuke right here bub.

    I was sitting up late the other night and decided to peruse some of my d20 system books. I noticed in the star-ship section of D20 future that a fusion mine does, on average, about 255 HP worth of damage. A moment later, it occurred to me that a high level D&D fighter type can actually survive that pretty regularly. There's no real purpose to this thread other than to point out the absurdity of a high level fighter or barbarian surviving a NUCLEAR BOMB without much trouble. I guess they just don't make "strong heroes" like they used to
    Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2010-01-13 at 06:22 AM.

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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    I noticed in the star-ship section of D20 future that a fusion mine does, on average, about 255 HP worth of damage. A moment later, it occurred to me that a high level D&D fighter type can actually survive that pretty regularly.
    But the Starship flies, while the fighter...
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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Angel View Post
    But the Starship flies, while the fighter...
    Has bought wings of flying.
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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    In real life the toughest human ever would have been at most, level 5, so a level 20 fighter survivig is hardly strange - at that level your body would be probably tougher than steel.

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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Imagine it on the ground though. Everything for 750 ft from ground zero just got blasted for 255 damage. There's a crater, and at the bottom of the crater there's a barbarian looking dumbfounded. He says "okay...... that was a good hit..... MY TURN!" and charges at whoever's responsible for the nuke going off at his feet.

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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    And then hits them for some piddly amount of damage
    ,,,,^..^,,,,


    Quote Originally Posted by Haldir View Post
    Edit- I understand it now, Fighters are like a status symbol. If you're well off enough to own a living Fighter, you must be pretty well off!

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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Everything for 750 ft from ground zero just got blasted for 255 damage.
    indeed, it's a weak damage for a dedicated blaster type...

    But yes, the image is funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Munchkin-Masher View Post
    Has bought wings of flying.

    I was kiddin... but anyway, I don't think a starship has a flight speed of 60 feet / round...
    Last edited by Killer Angel; 2010-01-13 at 07:05 AM.
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    If I have a player using Paladin in the future I will direct them to this. Good job.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Angel View Post
    indeed, it's a weak damage for a dedicated blaster type...

    But yes, the image is funny.
    Does less than a good ubercharger, too.
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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vizzerdrix View Post
    And then hits them for some piddly amount of damage
    Last I saw, a barbarian dip was a massive booster for uberchargers. On a similarly odd note, I've seen uberchargers who could do damage comparable to a nuke at high levels. I'm never gonna bother trying to nerf a fighter because "it's not realistic" again

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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Plus 20d6 falling damage, surely.

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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    I was sitting up late the other night and decided to peruse some of my d20 system books. I noticed in the star-ship section of D20 future that a fusion mine does, on average, about 255 HP worth of damage. A moment later, it occurred to me that a high level D&D fighter type can actually survive that pretty regularly. There's no real purpose to this thread other than to point out the absurdity of a high level fighter or barbarian surviving a NUCLEAR BOMB without much trouble. I guess they just don't make "strong heroes" like they used to
    You didn't read the radiation rules...

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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Radiation sickness is a disease, I'm pretty sure a barb 20 will laugh at radioactive material because A) with his fort save it really can't hurt him, and B) It glows in the dark and he's a BSF

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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Umm... But wouldn't it be a disease he'd have to continuously make savea against? That kept going up every second?
    ,,,,^..^,,,,


    Quote Originally Posted by Haldir View Post
    Edit- I understand it now, Fighters are like a status symbol. If you're well off enough to own a living Fighter, you must be pretty well off!

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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Doesn't the true übercharger have damage that is expressed in scientific notation?

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    According to MSRD on dandwiki.com, the highest save DC for radiation is 24.

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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Oh. Well that isn't so bad. At higher levels. Heck, at that point the Barbarian should retrain into throwing mini nukes like footballs! ^_^
    ,,,,^..^,,,,


    Quote Originally Posted by Haldir View Post
    Edit- I understand it now, Fighters are like a status symbol. If you're well off enough to own a living Fighter, you must be pretty well off!

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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vizzerdrix View Post
    Oh. Well that isn't so bad. At higher levels. Heck, at that point the Barbarian should retrain into throwing mini nukes like footballs! ^_^
    NO! He should tie a nuclear grenade onto a stick so it will impact trigger, and use that as a warhammer for ubercharging!
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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Needs moar Hulking Hurler.

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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    NO! He should tie a nuclear grenade onto a stick so it will impact trigger, and use that as a warhammer for ubercharging!
    OR get extra arms and throw mini nukes while uber charging! With a mini nuke warhammer! Oh Damn! We needs to build this!
    ,,,,^..^,,,,


    Quote Originally Posted by Haldir View Post
    Edit- I understand it now, Fighters are like a status symbol. If you're well off enough to own a living Fighter, you must be pretty well off!

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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myou View Post
    In real life the toughest human ever would have been at most, level 5, so a level 20 fighter survivig is hardly strange - at that level your body would be probably tougher than steel.
    The toughest human, ever?
    A strictly median level 5 barbarian with a con score of 10 could get a tattoo from a starship-mounted laser cannon. A vast majority of the time, it wouldn't even reduce him to negative hitpoints.

    But what about the toughest barbarian ever?
    A level 5 barbarian with maximized hitpoints, a con score of 18, and three toughness feats (icing on the cake, really) could shrug off an M1A2 Abrams tank shell, which, strangely, does almost as much damage as a starship nuclear missile (65 compared to 72).

    Is it a man, or a tank?
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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vizzerdrix View Post
    And then hits them for some piddly amount of damage
    uberchargers easily do quad figure damage (as in, over 1000)
    they do more damage then a nuclear bomb.

    Questions:
    1. Does a nuke allow reflex for half? (rogues take no damage :P)
    2. Are you sure that it is standard HP damage and not a separate measure of HP used for space ships?
    Last edited by taltamir; 2010-01-13 at 09:05 PM.
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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Quote Originally Posted by taltamir View Post
    uberchargers easily do quad figure damage (as in, over 1000)
    they do more damage then a nuclear bomb.

    Questions:
    1. Does a nuke allow reflex for half? (rogues take no damage :P)
    2. Are you sure that it is standard HP damage and not a separate measure of HP used for space ships?
    1. Nope, at least for a fusion mine as was established in the first post. For those, a Pilot check is needed to half the damage.
    2. It is specifically stated as a starship to starship weapon, which means that the original post is rather tenuously following RAW.

    Rules for actual ground-busting nuclear warheads, though...I'd have to dig out my copy of d20 Apocalypse and check.
    LGBTitP

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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rappy View Post
    1. Nope, at least for a fusion mine as was established in the first post. For those, a Pilot check is needed to half the damage.
    2. It is specifically stated as a starship to starship weapon, which means that the original post is rather tenuously following RAW.

    Rules for actual ground-busting nuclear warheads, though...I'd have to dig out my copy of d20 Apocalypse and check.
    ok, i figured as much... a 4hp starship is not a 4hp human. its different measures of HP.
    I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman!

    the glass is always 100% full. Approximately 50% of its volume is full of dihydrogen monoxide and some dissolved solutes, and approx 50% a mixture of gasses known as "air" which contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.

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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Quote Originally Posted by taltamir View Post
    ok, i figured as much... a 4hp starship is not a 4hp human. its different measures of HP.
    The starship rules in d20 Future are very....contentious...as is the whole book. Depending on who you ask, it's either useful or a blasphemous abomination on the d20 Modern line.

    Also, I checked the nuke rules from d20 Apocalypse again. No damage, no save, just a listed destruction radius and fallout radiation damage. So the obscure rule seem to indicate either GM's choice or "rocks fall, you die".
    Last edited by Rappy; 2010-01-13 at 09:45 PM.
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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rappy View Post
    So the obscure rule seem to indicate either GM's choice or "nukes fall, you die".
    fixed it for you :)
    I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman!

    the glass is always 100% full. Approximately 50% of its volume is full of dihydrogen monoxide and some dissolved solutes, and approx 50% a mixture of gasses known as "air" which contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.

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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Actually, it does look to be the same hp values. The softest example star-ship in the book is the modern day shuttle at 120 hp average, whereas the pl 7 star freighter is at 16000. A 4hp star-ship would be just as tough as a 4hp human, it's just that at only 4 hp it'd be about the size of a bowling ball.

    I don't actually have D20 apocalypse, but I kinda figured that the fusion mine wasn't really on the same order of magnitude as a for real, blow up a city nuke. Even if it is, you'd have to account for a certain increase in force when you consider that inside the atmosphere the energy released would actually transfer much, much more efficiently what with actual matter to carry the pulse and all.
    Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2010-01-14 at 02:26 AM.

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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    That sounds EPIC. Suddenly I have a new campaign idea...


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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Actually, it does look to be the same hp values. The...
    Two things:
    1. A space shuttle being able to take only 30-times the damage of a 4-hitpoint NPC?

    2. Why would, say, an M1A2 Abrams tank shot do 65 average damage while a PL6 starship fusion beam does 45?
    Belkar's Bad to the Bone.
    Dispossible a fetter hein and bemay kine a sinder's tock.

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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demented View Post
    Two things:
    1. A space shuttle being able to take only 30-times the damage of a 4-hitpoint NPC?

    2. Why would, say, an M1A2 Abrams tank shot do 65 average damage while a PL6 starship fusion beam does 45?
    Do I actually have to say it?

    D20 has never been really good at modelling such things anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
    Leiningen will win, even if he must lose in the attempt.

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    Default Re: I got your nuke right here bub.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demented View Post
    Two things:
    1. A space shuttle being able to take only 30-times the damage of a 4-hitpoint NPC?

    2. Why would, say, an M1A2 Abrams tank shot do 65 average damage while a PL6 starship fusion beam does 45?
    1. not a space shuttle. The space shuttle, like NASA's Endeavor or Enterprise. It's not a particularly tough vehicle relatively speaking. And hp's aren't the only measure of how much firepower it takes to destroy something. All vehicles have hardness that a weapon has to get around.

    2. It has to do with how the energy of the two weapons is transferred to the target. The Abrams cannon transfers the energy from the shell to the target with sheer kinetic force. This force spreads from the point of impact in a wave pattern through the target pushing the target apart as much as pushing through the target. The fusion beam's energy is transferred as a ray. It cuts clean through the target without really damaging any of the material surrounding the hole it cuts through. Given the hardness of most war vehicles the abrams shells will only do 55 damage on average and in some cases will do little to no damage, whereas the fusion beam bypasses hardness and does its full damage to all targets. It's more accurate to say that the tank shell does more damage against soft targets. Also realize that star-ships of notable size fire multiple, fire-linked weapons rather than individual weapons, which significantly increases their destructive power. Even simply fire-linking two fusion beams (which one of the example fighters does) increases the damage to an average of 67.
    Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2010-01-14 at 05:17 AM.

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