Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 27 of 27
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Jergmo's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Gender
    Male

    Default Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    So, I have an idea for a monk build that is geared around terrorizing the entire party.

    Say...32 point buy, human. The build will be for 8th level.

    Str 14, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 8

    This requires the variant Monk combat style, Cobra Strike. From 1-6, it'd have the following feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Initiative, human feat, Dodge, Mobility, Combat Reflexes, feat, Spring Attack. (I haven't gotten that far to play with the other 2. )

    After 7th level, this monk will be eligible to take a level in Shadowdancer, netting it Hide in Plain Sight. In addition to this, I was thinking of taking a couple of skill tricks from Complete Scoundrel, for the jumping/climbing stuff.

    So, assuming my logic isn't flawed in a horrific manner, you have a Spring-Attacking opponent with extra speed to work with, can hide as a swift action if shadows are present, is difficult to track down, and on top of that, can even hide *up* and then strike from above with the help of skill tricks.

    Chaos ensues!


    Spoiler
    Show
    DM: "Sunder the wall?! WT**** kind of tactics are these!?"
    Me: The kind that armies have been using for millennia.
    DM: They didn't do it with swords!
    Me: Which makes us so much cooler.

    Player: Where are the babau in relation to everyone else?
    Me: They're right behind you. Vesil is covered in Loki's blood. That is their location in relation to you.
    Player: I was just wondering about a fireball.

    My Homebrew

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    noiadodh's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Recife, Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    0. too MAD, get carmendine monk (INT instead of WIS for monk abilities) a dip in swordsage for shadow blade technique (DEX to damage)

    1. he need acess to flying..

    2. how many pcs ur group have?
    Last edited by noiadodh; 2010-01-13 at 04:09 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    Pretty much no matter how fast you make him, he's still gonna be in charge range of pretty much anyone unless you can get his movement speed up to like, 120' or so, and hes still gonna be in range of spells. Players can also ready attacks, including 5' steps if needed, to hit your striker when he comes in for a strike.

    If you really want to do this, I'd do it underground, or inside. Somewhere with a lot of secret passages and sharp corners he can duck around.

    Also, since its an NPC, don't bother with Shadowdancer. Template on either the Dark template (Tome of Magic) or the Shadow template (Lords of Madness). Those both give movement speed increases, HiPS, and some other bonuses.

    Keep in mind that this type of encounter is INCREDIBLY frustrating for a player, so don't make it go on too long or your players might lose interest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Jergmo's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by noiadodh View Post
    0. too MAD, get carmendine monk (INT instead of WIS for monk abilities) a dip in swordsage for shadow blade technique (DEX to damage)

    1. he need acess to flying..

    2. how many pcs ur group have?
    Five. A Knight, fighter, rogue, Shapeshifter druid and Necromancer wizard.

    What's Carmendine Monk from?


    Spoiler
    Show
    DM: "Sunder the wall?! WT**** kind of tactics are these!?"
    Me: The kind that armies have been using for millennia.
    DM: They didn't do it with swords!
    Me: Which makes us so much cooler.

    Player: Where are the babau in relation to everyone else?
    Me: They're right behind you. Vesil is covered in Loki's blood. That is their location in relation to you.
    Player: I was just wondering about a fireball.

    My Homebrew

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    Try looking here.
    Champions of Valor pg 28
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Jergmo's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Pretty much no matter how fast you make him, he's still gonna be in charge range of pretty much anyone unless you can get his movement speed up to like, 120' or so, and hes still gonna be in range of spells. Players can also ready attacks, including 5' steps if needed, to hit your striker when he comes in for a strike.

    If you really want to do this, I'd do it underground, or inside. Somewhere with a lot of secret passages and sharp corners he can duck around.

    Also, since its an NPC, don't bother with Shadowdancer. Template on either the Dark template (Tome of Magic) or the Shadow template (Lords of Madness). Those both give movement speed increases, HiPS, and some other bonuses.

    Keep in mind that this type of encounter is INCREDIBLY frustrating for a player, so don't make it go on too long or your players might lose interest.
    It's my hope that the encounter would teach them that they should regroup and form a defensive circle or some other tactic, and also that readied actions are your best friends.


    Spoiler
    Show
    DM: "Sunder the wall?! WT**** kind of tactics are these!?"
    Me: The kind that armies have been using for millennia.
    DM: They didn't do it with swords!
    Me: Which makes us so much cooler.

    Player: Where are the babau in relation to everyone else?
    Me: They're right behind you. Vesil is covered in Loki's blood. That is their location in relation to you.
    Player: I was just wondering about a fireball.

    My Homebrew

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Jergmo's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Try looking here.
    Champions of Valor pg 28
    Bah!
    Last edited by Jergmo; 2010-01-13 at 04:18 PM.


    Spoiler
    Show
    DM: "Sunder the wall?! WT**** kind of tactics are these!?"
    Me: The kind that armies have been using for millennia.
    DM: They didn't do it with swords!
    Me: Which makes us so much cooler.

    Player: Where are the babau in relation to everyone else?
    Me: They're right behind you. Vesil is covered in Loki's blood. That is their location in relation to you.
    Player: I was just wondering about a fireball.

    My Homebrew

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    deuxhero's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Fl

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    Unarmed Swordsage.


    Seriously, except mabe Monk 2/Psy War 18 with Talshasomething it is the only practical way to have a monk that isn't a joke.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    Tashalatora, Secrets of Sarlona.

    That kind of monk is more of an IN YOUR FACE GRAPPLE RAWR! type monk, rather than a mobility based monk, especially since monk speed is one of the few things that Tashalatora does NOT increase.

    That said, I'd definitely support some swordsage in there. Shadow Hand teleports are AWESOME, the Child of Shadow stance would give this character 20% miss chance ALL the time, and there are some pretty debilitating strikes in SH that will stack up. Remember, if the monk can get away, it can refresh all of its manevuers in a round with Adaptive Style and head back in to use the same tactics again and again and again!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Goiás, Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    Well, make the battle in a place with lots of traps, monks are good at escaping those, but other characthers will have to endure it. Once i made a battle of PCs vs a few monks, in the room where the monks had their gauntlet. The ground had bad movement penalties, but platforms at 4,5 m allowed the monks to move fast, while offering cover and allowing to block Line of Sight. Nets, and a few spiked pits here and there. Poisonous snakes and spiders were all over the area. Vases full of oil that doubled as greek fire, hidden crossbow traps. Fireball traps. Tapestry that make for easy hiding spots. And a giant loud gong that ressonated around, having the effects of a chime of interruption, but weightin a lot more. Also, a lot of objects around, specifically to foil walls of force/Forcecages.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2009

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    Keep in mind they can only do a half charge on a readied action.so depending on the relative speeds in question even readied action might not be very helpful.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Carlisle, Englund
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by noiadodh View Post
    1. he need acess to flying..
    yhea, it's called Dungeons & Dragons, not Ceilings & Centaurs
    wait doesn't a Dungeon need a Ceiling?
    "Three blokes walk into a pub. One of them is a little bit stupid, and the whole scene unfolds with a tedious inevitability." - Bill Bailey
    Androgeus' 3 step guide to Doctor Who speculation:
    Spoiler
    Show
    1. Pick a random character
    2. State that person is The Rani
    3. goto 1

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Titan in the Playground
     
    tyckspoon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by awa View Post
    Keep in mind they can only do a half charge on a readied action.so depending on the relative speeds in question even readied action might not be very helpful.
    You misunderstand. You don't ready an action to chase him; you can do that perfectly well on your own initiative (and you can't ready a partial charge anyway.) You ready an action to hit him the next time he comes into your reach, which lets you trade blows with him. Or grapple him. Or trip him. Or cast Web, or mark him with Glitterdust to make it near impossible for him to hide. It shouldn't be all that hard to screw up this guy's trick with a single standard action.. not really a problem if Jergmo just wants to make his players have to think for a bit about how they can force the monk into a normal fight.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Banned
     
    Optimystik's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Tashalatora, Secrets of Sarlona.

    That kind of monk is more of an IN YOUR FACE GRAPPLE RAWR! type monk, rather than a mobility based monk, especially since monk speed is one of the few things that Tashalatora does NOT increase.
    Not that it needs to, with powers like Hustle and Skate

    Quote Originally Posted by Androgeus View Post
    yhea, it's called Dungeons & Dragons, not Ceilings & Centaurs
    wait doesn't a Dungeon need a Ceiling?
    Not all of them have a low ceiling, though. Case in point: ToH, Undermountain, etc.
    Last edited by Optimystik; 2010-01-13 at 06:53 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Bibliomancer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    A warmish part of Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Tashalatora, Secrets of Sarlona.
    The only reason why the kalashtar haven't been conquered by the Inspired.

    Also the only reason why they haven't conquered the Inspired (both sides mainly use monks, then psionic classes. If the kalashtar trained all their monks as psions, they probably wouldn't still be besieged in Adar).


    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    You misunderstand. You don't ready an action to chase him; you can do that perfectly well on your own initiative (and you can't ready a partial charge anyway.) You ready an action to hit him the next time he comes into your reach, which lets you trade blows with him. Or grapple him. Or trip him. Or cast Web, or mark him with Glitterdust to make it near impossible for him to hide. It shouldn't be all that hard to screw up this guy's trick with a single standard action.. not really a problem if Jergmo just wants to make his players have to think for a bit about how they can force the monk into a normal fight.
    Hypothetically, one way to get around this would be to attack from random angles at large intervals (5 minutes or so), and even then the DM would have to dictate that you can't hold a readied action indefinitely and be very strict about the definition (which can be read to include a specific area, so if the wizard guesses incorrectly Web aimed at the wrong area).
    Last edited by Bibliomancer; 2010-01-13 at 06:54 PM.
    In Dungeons and Dragons, racism is frowned upon, unless you're playing an elf. Then it's an interesting character trait.

    Avatar by Darwin.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Jergmo's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by deuxhero View Post
    Unarmed Swordsage.


    Seriously, except mabe Monk 2/Psy War 18 with Talshasomething it is the only practical way to have a monk that isn't a joke.
    Uh...no. I really am tired of seeing "Just play an Unarmed Swordsage, MONKS SUCK FOREVER". Swordsage sucks for this build anyway.

    First of all, the Swordsage has no bonus speed, which is part of what makes it work in the first place.

    Second...sure, the Swordsage could do it! At a minimum of 9th level, if human. Meanwhile, the human monk has three more feats to play with. At 8th level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Androgeus View Post
    yhea, it's called Dungeons & Dragons, not Ceilings & Centaurs
    wait doesn't a Dungeon need a Ceiling?
    I would so play Ceilings & Centaurs. That sounds awesome!
    Last edited by Jergmo; 2010-01-13 at 07:45 PM.


    Spoiler
    Show
    DM: "Sunder the wall?! WT**** kind of tactics are these!?"
    Me: The kind that armies have been using for millennia.
    DM: They didn't do it with swords!
    Me: Which makes us so much cooler.

    Player: Where are the babau in relation to everyone else?
    Me: They're right behind you. Vesil is covered in Loki's blood. That is their location in relation to you.
    Player: I was just wondering about a fireball.

    My Homebrew

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Demons_eye's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Mi Lower P
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jergmo View Post
    Uh...no. I really am tired of seeing "Just play an Unarmed Swordsage, MONKS SUCK FOREVER". Swordsage sucks for this build anyway.

    First of all, the Swordsage has no bonus speed, which is part of what makes it work in the first place.

    Second...sure, the Swordsage could do it! At a minimum of 9th level, if human. Meanwhile, the human monk has three more feats to play with. At 8th level.
    While I agree that monks need more love, a sword sage could do this better in a heart beat. Even at the 8th level the monk only has 20 more land speed then a Sword sage. If he grabs some boots only ten.

    Edit: If you want to get your land speed high, grab duskling race and two dips into barbarian and Totemist. You lose Fast movement but gain the ability to put your Essentia into land speed 10 feet per point spent. Also more dark template.
    Last edited by Demons_eye; 2010-01-13 at 08:17 PM.
    ~Sweet avatar by Miss Nobody~

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike
    You killed it, its dead, it exploded, Good Job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Logalmier View Post
    "I need a latter! Quick, find a psion so he can make one with his mind!"

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    What does this build need?
    1) Move & Attack (Mobility)
    2) Good, reliable stealth
    3) 3D attack capability

    Monk fulfills half of the first (move) and half of the second (good stealth). It's hardly an optimal choice.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    noiadodh's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Recife, Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    hmm the OP should tell if he want a build with most levels in monk (even if its suboptimal) or just some 8th level guy that use primarily unarmed strikes then..
    Last edited by noiadodh; 2010-01-13 at 08:30 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Jergmo's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by noiadodh View Post
    hmm the OP should tell if he want a build with most levels in monk (even if its suboptimal) or just some 8th level guy that use primarily unarmed strikes then..
    ...Erm...*points at title of thread* >_>


    Spoiler
    Show
    DM: "Sunder the wall?! WT**** kind of tactics are these!?"
    Me: The kind that armies have been using for millennia.
    DM: They didn't do it with swords!
    Me: Which makes us so much cooler.

    Player: Where are the babau in relation to everyone else?
    Me: They're right behind you. Vesil is covered in Loki's blood. That is their location in relation to you.
    Player: I was just wondering about a fireball.

    My Homebrew

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    noiadodh's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Recife, Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    so why you didn't just said: "ok ok, its suboptimal, but back to topic!"

    do you plan to use any minions? some crowd control would be good, there are 5 pcs after all..
    Last edited by noiadodh; 2010-01-13 at 09:22 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Demons_eye's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Mi Lower P
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jergmo View Post
    ...Erm...*points at title of thread* >_>
    –noun
    1. (in Christianity) a man who has withdrawn from the world for religious reasons, esp. as a member of an order of cenobites living according to a particular rule and under vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience.
    2. (in any religion) a man who is a member of a monastic order: a Buddhist monk.
    3. Printing. a dark area on a printed page caused by uneven inking of the plate or type. Compare friar (def. 2).
    Origin:
    bef. 900; ME; OE munuc < LL monachus < Gk monachós hermit, n. use of adj.: solitary, equiv. to món(os) alone + -achos adj. suffix
    Ok then, lets make a wizard! Remember to put points into profession: monastery leader.
    ~Sweet avatar by Miss Nobody~

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike
    You killed it, its dead, it exploded, Good Job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Logalmier View Post
    "I need a latter! Quick, find a psion so he can make one with his mind!"

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Jergmo's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Demons_eye View Post
    Ok then, lets make a wizard! Remember to put points into profession: monastery leader.
    I will destroy you!


    Spoiler
    Show
    DM: "Sunder the wall?! WT**** kind of tactics are these!?"
    Me: The kind that armies have been using for millennia.
    DM: They didn't do it with swords!
    Me: Which makes us so much cooler.

    Player: Where are the babau in relation to everyone else?
    Me: They're right behind you. Vesil is covered in Loki's blood. That is their location in relation to you.
    Player: I was just wondering about a fireball.

    My Homebrew

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Titan in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Imagination Land
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    Jergmo, the problem you're experiencing is that you posted your build idea without telling us what sort of response you were trying to get from the forum readers. Thus, you shouldn't have been surprised when people posted the board's "common sense" strategies for replacing Monk with something else that can accomplish the same thing only better. If you had been more clear from the start, well that still would have happened, but you would have also gotten some posts that were actually helpful to you.

    That said, I like your build. I think high speed Spring Attack + Hide in Plain Sight is a good combo for Single Villain vs Party encounters. It will at the very least keep the guy alive until the PCs realize they need to use readied actions against him.
    "Nothing you can't spell will ever work." - Will Rogers

    Watch me draw and swear at video games.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    unre9istered's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    Hope your druid didn't memorize faerie fire, could shut down the hiding real quick.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    dyslexicfaser's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    If you do go unarmed swordsage with shadow teleporting, or get burrowing or incoproreal or whatever, consider the diabolus race from Dragon magazine. Tail Barb, Multigrab and Greater Multigrab lets you sting one of your PCs with your tail, grapple them but not be considered grappled, and run off with them, dragging them behind you.

    Also fun, is get the psionic feat or Dungeonscape variant that lets your monk run by on walls or ceilings. Just don't end your turn there, or you fall off. Plus two levels of drunken master lets you make all kinds of crazy charges. Start on ground level, then charge up the wall, onto the ceiling, then Battle Jump down onto the PCs, then Hustle back the way you came.

    Plus, what PC wouldn't like being slapped around by a drunken monk?
    People seemed to like this better, but only marginally so - the way one might prefer to be stabbed than shot. Optimally, one isn't stabbed or shot. Optimally, one eats some cake! But there are times when cake is not available, and instead we are destroyed. This is the deep poetry of the universe. -- Tycho Brahe

    Spoiler
    Show

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    noiadodh's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Recife, Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Idea for a Monk Villain [3.5]

    unfortunately there isn't enough levels for drunken master...
    Last edited by noiadodh; 2010-01-13 at 11:51 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •