Warrior Bard (3.5 Bard Variant)

[Gamerlord]

Basically, the warrior bard gains increased defensive and melee battle prowess in exchange for sacrificing some of his magical abilities.

Weapons and armors proficiency: The warrior bard keeps the proficiencies of the standard bard, with the added bonus of medium armor proficiency and also training with all light and one-handed simple and martial weapons. The warrior bard also gains proficiency with light and heavy shields. The warrior bard also gains the ability to cast arcane spells without arcane spell failure in medium armor.

Suggestion,Song of freedom,countersong, and mass suggestion: The warrior bard loses all these class features.

Comments? Is it underpowered? Overpowered? If you were playing a bard, would you play this variant?

[Merk]

I think it may be underpowered. The best of the new features is probably casting in medium armor, but the added weapon proficiencies aren't that exciting, nor is the shield proficiency. In exchange, losing suggestion and mass suggestion really make me feel like I'm losing out on a lot of what makes a bard fun to play.

If I wanted to play a "warrior bard" I would probably instead ask my DM to allow me to trade in arcane spellcasting for ToB maneuvers (and maybe a bump up to d8 HD if they're nice) from schools like Shadow Hand, White Raven, and maybe some of the homebrew ones like Coin's Edge.

[Gamerlord]

I think it may be underpowered. The best of the new features is probably casting in medium armor, but the added weapon proficiencies aren't that exciting, nor is the shield proficiency. In exchange, losing suggestion and mass suggestion really make me feel like I'm losing out on a lot of what makes a bard fun to play.

If I wanted to play a "warrior bard" I would probably instead ask my DM to allow me to trade in arcane spellcasting for ToB maneuvers (and maybe a bump up to d8 HD if they're nice) from schools like Shadow Hand, White Raven, and maybe some of the homebrew ones like Coin's Edge.

I don't own ToB, how would it be if the variant kept the suggestion abilities, but still lost countersong and song of freedom?

[DaTedinator]

If I wanted to play a "warrior bard" I would probably instead ask my DM to allow me to trade in arcane spellcasting for ToB maneuvers (and maybe a bump up to d8 HD if they're nice) from schools like Shadow Hand, White Raven, and maybe some of the homebrew ones like Coin's Edge.

That's, actually a fantastic idea.

As for the subject at hand, if all it lost was countersong and song of freedom, that'd actually be a significant power boost. Countersong is very situational and not a huge loss, and song of freedom is gained at, what, 10th level? So levels 1-9 the bard pays no penalty.

No, I think it was balanced with the original suggested changes, but not really a whole lot of fun was the problem. I think instead of ditching class abilities (or just class abilities), work on spellcasting as well. Look at Battle Sorcerer from Unearthed Arcana and Stalwart Sorcerer from Complete Mage for inspiration.

[Mando Knight]

It's weak. Battle Sorcerer is mostly rather weak as well.

The problem here is that it wants to become a melee class, but has only 3/4 BAB and no Divine Power or other means of drastically improving its attack capabilities. The fact that it loses its SOD ability further harms its ability as a full class.

It becomes a dip class: grab the Medium armor proficiency and the ability to cast arcane spells without penalty (not just bard spells) in Medium armor, then progress along in Sorcerer like nothing happened. Oh, look. Two more uses of your favorite cantrips, a d8 HD, a level with a good Reflex save, and an insane number of skill points.

In other words, it becomes the second-favorite core class for Sorcerers to dip into, after the Paladin. (Who gets two levels for the massive save bonus, free heal ability, +2 BAB, good Fort save, and even Smite Evil if he's a fan of Tenser's Transformation.)

[DragoonWraith]

I don't own ToB

Technically, you don't have to let that stop you. WotC has both the Warblade, and all of the Maneuvers posted on their website. That is 99% of the Tome of Battle mechanics right there (though you're missing the Crusader and Swordsage, and there may be a few things that are not exactly clear about how the maneuvers work, but seriously. That's pretty close to everything you need to run a Warblade, and plenty to homebrew up some new Initiators). Just an option, if you were interested.

[Kallisti]

Land of song, said the warrior bard, though all the world betrays thee/One faithful sword thy rights shall guard, one faithful harp shall praise thee...

Also, that's massively less powerful than the regular bard. Give them proficiency with all simple and martial weapons and song of freedom back at the least Suggestion and mass suggestion are pretty damn strong save-or-sucks.