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Thread: Looking for new RPG
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2010-01-13, 08:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Looking for new RPG
As the title suggests, I am searching for a new RPG system to use. Here is my experience:
-A few years of 3.5 DND. I am a highly proficient dungeon master with this system, if I may say so.
-Several adventures of 4.0. Didn't really like much about it, except the streamlined combat system.
-GM'd one Risus adventure. It goes without saying that it is too simple of a system. Loads of fun though...
-A few months of NWOD Hunter/mortals.
I am looking for a new system to try out. Here are a few ideas:
-NWOD changeling
-The burning wheel? What the heck is it?
-Pathfinder RPG
-Shadowrun
A few things I would like (but not necessary):
-I tend to prefer more gritty games (DND 4.0=fail) (NWOD=win). The willpower system used in NWOD is a great alternative to a gazzilion hitpoints.
-I tend to prefer games with slightly shorter combat scenes.
-I think that I would like to mostly stay away from bog standard Tolkienesque medieval fantasy. I am an Eberron fanatic. Would shadowrun do this for me?
-If would like to suggest a game, I would highly appreciate an example of an adventure (WIMPY EXAMPLE: Party members are mercenaries, hired by baron to hunt down bandit king that has stolen the Macguffin. They find the bandits lair, and dungeon crawl until party finds the object. The end), to get a sense of how the game roles. (cheap pun intended)
Thanks in advance!
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2010-01-13, 08:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
Shadowrun sounds like it would fit all your needs.
Plenty of mission esc stuff here- http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showforum=20Last edited by Kaun; 2010-01-13 at 08:37 PM.
Aside from "have fun", i think the key to GMing is putting your players into situations where they need to make a choice that has no perfect outcome available. They will hate you for it, but they will be back at the table session after session.
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2010-01-13, 08:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
Seconding Shadowrun.
Imagine a Dwarven gadgetmaster and demolitions expert teaming up with a cyber-enhanced Troll bruiser and motorcycle ace. Throw in a slick Elven negotiator with wicked aim and a sniper rifle and a Human occult detective, street smart and able to negotiate the criminal underworld. They all meet a mysterious contact in a crowded bar and are sent off to deliver an important package to a well-established businessman. Seems like easy money. While cruising down the main highway, they're ambushed by a crowd of flamethrower-toting orcs on Jeeps, intent on running them off the road for good. They escape and manage to get to the warehouse, where they find their contact dead and corporate cops surrounding the place. They sneak/fight/talk their way out and track down the SOBs who set them up. The entire adventure ends with an elaborate infiltration mission (likely including some virtual reality security dodging), an epic firefight with the servants of a mysterious secret society dedicated to the resurrection of an ancient evil, and a gigantic explosion. The party just barely escapes in time, collects their fair share of credits, and reconvenes for the next mission.
Now set this all in neo-modern Seattle and include dragons, yetis, aztec serpent gods, werewolves, vampires, and all other manner of mythological creatures playing buddy buddy with super corps and the Biggest Brother you can friggin' imagine.
It's lethal, dark, and gritty. Most runners don't survive their first mission from Mr. Johnson. Combat is short and sweet and extremely deadly. The dice are easy to deal with, no overcomplicated roles. The character creation system encompasses such a wealth of archetypes and ideas that you can create almost quite literally any character you can dream of.
Behind D&D, Shadowrun is my favorite system. It's cyberpunk instead of the steampunk you seem to enjoy, but it's SOMETHING-punk at least.Last edited by Gnorman; 2010-01-13 at 08:46 PM.
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2010-01-13, 09:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
GURPS does everything.
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2010-01-13, 09:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
-The burning wheel? What the heck is it?
-I tend to prefer more gritty games (DND 4.0=fail) (NWOD=win). The willpower system used in NWOD is a great alternative to a gazzilion hitpoints.
Alternatively if you're looking for a swords and sorcery feeling, try Riddle of Steel which claims (and succeeds I might add) at creating the most realistic melee fighting system. Conan by Mongoose publishing is based on the D20 system meaning you'll have an easy time getting into it, and it focuses on melee combat with spellcasters being brooding people physically twisted by the dark power they mess with. My favorite concept about the system is how your wealth essentially resets after every adventure because during your off time you spend everything partying.
-I tend to prefer games with slightly shorter combat scenes.
-I think that I would like to mostly stay away from bog standard Tolkienesque medieval fantasy. I am an Eberron fanatic. Would shadowrun do this for me?
Savage Worlds works with any kind of campaign you can build it around but its system definitely sways towards the swashbuckling/pulp action style adventures like Indiana Jones and Buck Rogers. If you liked Eberron's adventure style then Savage Worlds is a good system that matches it.
Finally, AD&D 2E plays a lot different than 3E. It's deadlier (0hp and you gone, buddy), has faster combat, and definitely suits the lower-powered games like Eberron.
-If would like to suggest a game, I would highly appreciate an example of an adventure (WIMPY EXAMPLE: Party members are mercenaries, hired by baron to hunt down bandit king that has stolen the Macguffin. They find the bandits lair, and dungeon crawl until party finds the object. The end), to get a sense of how the game roles. (cheap pun intended)
Dogs in the Vineyard takes place in a 1850s era American west. Mormonism (or as the game describes it "The Faith") established itself breaking off from the evil sinners in the east. You're one of God's Watchdogs who protects the Faithful, ousts sinners, and exorcises demons. You perform mundane tasks like delivering mail, delivering and naming babies, stomping sin before it goes out of control, and performing exorcisms. Each adventure takes place in a town where someone is about to sin (or has sinned) and the situation is slowly revealed before you. All encounters are played through a system of betting and raising dice until someone decides to give in.
A typical situation might be a wife who's angry at her husband because his second wife (yes, polygamy is practiced) is getting more attention. Her pride turns to anger and her anger becomes sin (murder). If the dog doesn't stop her, she will murder the second wife. The dog can begin by talking her down; if this doesn't work it can escalate to a fight and dogs do have the right to execute sinners. Alternatively you could visit the husband and make it clear what he's doing wrong. He could agree but this could earn his animosity (and the player can take him as a future relationship) or his son could discover what his father was doing and thus create an adventure the next time the Dog comes through town.
Mouse Guard puts you in the role of a group of mice tasked with protecting the scent border (keeps out predators), delivering mail, marking trails, and escorting mice as they perform their duties. The game spans two turns: the GM's turn and the players turn. The GM describes the current situation. The player then takes that situation and turns it into a story while rolling dice to determine if dangerous actions succeed.
This topic here has a better description of gameplay than I could sum up. Read the post by Novem5er on the previous page and his post on combat.
Burning Wheel is the system Mouse Guard is based on. BW assumes a typical fantasy setting but there's a campaign setting called Burning Empires which is kind of cyberpunkish.Last edited by jmbrown; 2010-01-13 at 09:23 PM.
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2010-01-13, 09:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
Going to voice a vote for GURPS as well.
The default setup is pretty deadly, the game is generally gritty, fights can be remarkably fast in terms of rounds, though can drag if both parties are defensive. Great skill system with skills defaulting to one another, and a ton of flexibility. Oh, and only d6s need apply.
Plus, you can check out the system by looking at GURPS lite, the free 32-page pdf. It covers the general rules to show how the game works.
http://www.sjgames.com/GURPS/lite/Last edited by Epinephrine; 2010-01-13 at 09:58 PM.
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2010-01-13, 09:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
GURPS does indeed do everything fairly well. It does do cinematic fantasy very well too. The only drawback is the higher the point total the more a new GM will have problems with it. There are a lot of options that might confuse. It's ideal for starters for things like realistic spy thriller, old west, low or no-magic fantasy, etc... all around 100-150 pts. I've played in and run many types of games with that system and it's my favourite go-to for any kind of genre that other games don't do very well.
I'll also throw in Champions/Hero for comic book supers or, for a little off-the-wall fun, Toon.Last edited by Kaldrin; 2010-01-13 at 09:59 PM.
Game systems played: D&D Basic (and other rainbow coloured boxes), AD&D, D&D 2, D&D 3 & 3.5, Champions, GURPS, Warhammer, Cyberpunk, Rifts... and more I can't remember.
Current Campaign(s): Savage Worlds post apoc.
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2010-01-13, 10:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
I say check out Shadowrun.
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2010-01-13, 11:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
Tossing in a vote for Fudge. Like GURPS it is a generic system, unlike GURPS you don't need to buy a Sci-fi book, a Fantasy book, a Spagetti Western book, and a Shoujo Anime Romance book. Although the last one exists compliments of a third party company.
heavier than Savage Worlds it is fairly quick, can be very deadly (I have never seen a system where getting ganged up on is more detrimental. Basically combat uses opposed rolls, and you must beat the rolls of everyone against you to hit anyone against you, while any who beat you can hit you. At a penalty that gets nasty fast.), and is a smooth elegant system that you can run without the book. At the same time, it can do some simulationism well. Basically, it is like GURPS, but lets you cover even more. GURPS breaks down in any game where Strength, Agility, Toughness, and Perception are not valid attributes. You could run a game in Fudge covering aspects of spirituality battling over the mind of someone.
A note on fights. They are not turn based, and with everything simultaneous they move very quickly. Still, there is some tactical level, and if you use the Stances option then there is high versatility. However, it requires sensible GMing. A lot is covered, but it is assumed the GM can make judgment calls.Last edited by Knaight; 2010-01-13 at 11:10 PM.
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2010-01-13, 11:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
May I suggest
FATAL?
Sorry, that was my sadistic side talking.
In all seriousness though, GURPS will do whatever campaign style you feel like, and do it better than any d20 system. Shadowrun is awesomesauce cool flavor, but it doesn't work for fantasy. Also, GURPS is realistic, and therefore more gritty. but if you feel like playing with rule of cool, you can do that to.
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2010-01-13, 11:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-01-13, 11:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
Thanks guys! This is really helpful.
How does the length/complexity of fights compare from shadowrun to DND?
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2010-01-14, 01:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
Aside from "have fun", i think the key to GMing is putting your players into situations where they need to make a choice that has no perfect outcome available. They will hate you for it, but they will be back at the table session after session.
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2010-01-14, 03:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
I reccomend you go check out pathfinder since it is the natural progression from 3.5 (4th edition *grumble*), There is an online SRD here: www.d20pfsrd.com and while the books are somewhat expensiever than your average 3.5 book, you only need to buy 2 of the books since the core rulebook is a DMG/PHB combined. One of the biggest complaint about this is that at first glance it looks to be exactly like 3.5: all the races, classes, magic items, inventory, combat and skills seem to be the same, but they are not, they have changed for the better imho.
Anyway, go take a look at it because if you like 3.5 you should like pathfinder even better, now if only I could get my group to play pathfinder myself (they are rambling about it being DnD so "why should they bother if its the same"
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2010-01-14, 03:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
In Shadowrun 4, the whole rule system is a lot clumsier and less elegant while also less exact than three dimensional scaling in the previous editions, and especially the combats show it. If people don't know what they do, or the defenders just roll very good, combats can become tedious. If everybody knows the rules, and has the basic tactics at hand, they can be over very quick. Shadowrun is not a very gritty game, though, and it happens way too often that you shoot somebody right between the eyes... to cause a light wound. Especially if the target is a troll, and you use for any reasons a light gun. If you want to go for a gritty game, Cyberpunk beats Shadowrun. It also has the general better rule mechanisms, but no elves, dragons, or
Otherwise I would just add my praise to the greatness that is Gurps, but it would feel repetitive in this thread by now, so I try to come up with a few alternatives. Just one thing: You don't need any book but the two core books of Gurps to play pretty much any setting you probably can come up with. The various splat books are good, as in a benchmark of quality and research, but they tend to be written a bit dry and they are by no means mandatory. There are a few which are absolutely beautiful books (I particularly like Martial Arts and Thaumatology) who offer lots of additional cool stuff, but you really don't need them.
-I tend to prefer more gritty games (DND 4.0=fail) (NWOD=win). The willpower system used in NWOD is a great alternative to a gazzilion hitpoints.
Alternatively, there is the Unisystem, which a) you can extract from the free Witchcraft book download and b) are very easy to houserule. They are mostly a combination of a more realistic D20 system (without classes, and levels) combined with the Gurps-typical point system. The rules aren't as exact as Gurps, but very comfortable. I use this as a replacement system for the D20 settings I like, when I want bother to cope with the D20 rules I don't like, and it works very well and gives the setting a nice, more plausible turn towards realism.
-I tend to prefer games with slightly shorter combat scenes.
On the other side are games who are brutal in their more realistic approach to the rules. Combat turns usually take a bit longer to resolve, but it is often very easy to eliminate a threat with one good hit. Gurps works this way, Unisystem has tendencies towards this, Shadowrun is somewhere inbetween.
-I think that I would like to mostly stay away from bog standard Tolkienesque medieval fantasy. I am an Eberron fanatic. Would shadowrun do this for me?
-If would like to suggest a game, I would highly appreciate an example of an adventure (WIMPY EXAMPLE: Party members are mercenaries, hired by baron to hunt down bandit king that has stolen the Macguffin. They find the bandits lair, and dungeon crawl until party finds the object. The end), to get a sense of how the game roles. (cheap pun intended)
What kind of genre / setting are you interested in? More like classical fantasy, or something more similar to the WoD? Horror?
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2010-01-14, 03:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
Shadowrun seems to be your bet. I used to play it a lot when editions 1 and 2 were out, but never since. Sad, I would love to play it again, even though I would have to borrow the rulebooks from a friend.
I wonder why lots of people hereabouts play GURPS, but noone mentions Hero Systems, a system that does the same thing as GURPS, just a lot better (imho). I played and DMed Hero Systems for years and it even has a more-or-less working magic system.
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2010-01-14, 04:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
I wonder why lots of people hereabouts play GURPS, but noone mentions Hero Systems, a system that does the same thing as GURPS, just a lot better (imho).
Hero is not a bad game, but a comparatively obscure one (showing once again that quality and popularity are two very different scales). I play both systems from time to time, but usually prefer Gurps because I really don't like the point buy structure of equipment. While it makes sense for characters, expanding it to items makes in practice bound very strongly to the character, and I am not to fond of that. It works the same way in Gurps if you want to, but it is not at all mandatory. I also think that Gurps is a bit more streamlined, but those are no quality issues, they are just preferences.
I played and DMed Hero Systems for years and it even has a more-or-less working magic system.Last edited by Satyr; 2010-01-14 at 04:24 AM.
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2010-01-14, 05:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
I haven't seen any votes for Rolemaster/HARP...
Originally Posted by The Doctor
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2010-01-14, 05:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
- Shadowrun
- Mutants and Masterminds
- Call of Cthulhu
- CthulhuTech
- Star Wars Saga Edition
- Burning Wheel
- Legend of the Five Rings
- Dark Heresy
- Warhammer Fantasy Second Edition
- Warhammer Fantasy Third Edition
- Rogue Trader
- Traveller
- Little Fears
- Exalted
- Earthdawn
- Paranoia
- Fantasy Craft
- Eclipse Phase
Last edited by NPCMook; 2010-01-14 at 05:37 AM.
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2010-01-14, 06:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-01-14, 07:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
Burning Wheel is an excellent system. It distills drama and consequence into every decision, every action. It's built around pushing your character to see how far you are willing to go. Trial by fire. It's about hard questions and tough choices.
In Burning Wheel, the players drive the story by testing their character’s abilities. It can be resolved in a single roll, or decided in an extended conflict, social or martial. The GM doles out the consequences for failure based on what the player was trying to accomplish. You want to find a woodsman to guide you through the forest - make a circles test. If you fail he suspects thieves so he's shooting first and asking questions later. You want to get some gear - make a resources test. If you fail you can't afford it but your rival comes forward with the offer of a loan and a suppressed smirk. You want to convince your enemy to let your friends go - engage him in a duel of wits. Plan your argument well, because if you fail, he might just convince you to take the place of your friends in exchange for their freedom. You want that bastard dead? Escalate to a Fight! Take him out in a blow-by-blow melee. Don’t fail this time, though, because it might be your last. How far do you take it?
In Burning Wheel, the consequences for failure always lead to the next conflict. There are no dead-ends, well unless you were to get killed... The story told is about the path you take toward your goals. Whether the game is political, military, or a classic sword and sorcery adventure, it's all possible. You write your own Beliefs about what you want the game to be and Instincts that tell everyone how you can react. You advance your Skills as you test them and you earn Traits that describe how your character developed and was roleplayed.
Burning Wheel is on the gritty end of the spectrum, it does't presume any kind of universal character balance but anyone has a chance to kill anyone else even if it's a very small one.
For a sample game I ran a mini-module called The Sword. Basically all it's just a set of four characters that each have a belief about a Sword. They've all adventured and finally found a big room with a sword. The whole adventure was just four character beliefs...
Normally a dungeon type game is all monsters and traps... here, no. It was just each of the players thinking it was "their quest". So there was a bit of action when they all wanted to take it. Then we used the social mechanics to play out an argument, it was a really fun way to showcase the abilities of the system to resolve such a crisis.Mannerism RPG An RPG in which your descriptions resolve your actions and sculpts your growth.
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2010-01-14, 10:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-01-14, 10:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-01-14, 11:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
In answer to your above requirements/desires:
- WFRP,
- WFRP,
- WFRP, and
- WFRP.
That is all.
(I am, of course, referring to the delicious "All-England Baldrickian Butt-Monkey of Fate RPG Open Contest Winner '86-'06" that is WFRP 1/2E. WFRP3 is a glorified Heroquest wannabe, not an RPG.)Last edited by bosssmiley; 2010-01-14 at 11:13 AM.
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2010-01-14, 11:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
Shadowrun is a good system. Character creation is fun, the world is flavorful and fairly simple to explain, although you have to be wary of your players. I've had a cybered-up troll with a maxed out Body stat. It's not pretty.
Awesome avatar by: MoriHikari! Thanks a lot!
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2010-01-14, 11:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
Rogue Trader or Dark Heresy can be a hell of a lot of fun and nice alternative to d20 systems. We are actually playing Rogue Trader till next week still - makes for good playing.
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2010-01-14, 12:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-01-14, 12:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
Pathfinder isn't really all that different from 3.5. It's decent, you might have some fun with it, but it won't be a dramatic change.
I suggest 7th Sea. It can be quite gritty depending on how you do it. It also tends to have shorter, but flashier combat scenes.
An example campaign would be a group of explorers out to dig around for artifacts. Some nice mix of fighters, casters, and hybrids of the two. Being classless, it's hard to define it that way, but the difference is important. Then you get into secret societies. It's not entirely unusual for everyone in the party to actually be working towards different ends, some of which are public, some of which are not, and the morality of each tends to be highly dependant on viewpoint.
You would, of course, stumble across very nasty things during the campaign, leading you to discover scary things regarding the past, the nature of reality, and the future, or imminent lack of one.Last edited by Tyndmyr; 2010-01-14 at 12:50 PM.
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2010-01-14, 10:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
GURPS doesn't require that at all...
You absolutely only need 4th edition Campaigns, Characters and maybe Powers (if you want to build your own super heroic system). But, Powers is more of a mechanics guide to building power sets than a core book.
Edit: Actually you don't even need that. GURPS Lite is playable. It's just not complicated at all and will leave some people wanting more.Last edited by Kaldrin; 2010-01-14 at 10:06 PM.
Game systems played: D&D Basic (and other rainbow coloured boxes), AD&D, D&D 2, D&D 3 & 3.5, Champions, GURPS, Warhammer, Cyberpunk, Rifts... and more I can't remember.
Current Campaign(s): Savage Worlds post apoc.
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2010-01-14, 10:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Looking for new RPG
Game systems played: D&D Basic (and other rainbow coloured boxes), AD&D, D&D 2, D&D 3 & 3.5, Champions, GURPS, Warhammer, Cyberpunk, Rifts... and more I can't remember.
Current Campaign(s): Savage Worlds post apoc.