Hulking Hurler: Doing it right

[Cieyrin]

So, I've heard of the daunting damage of Hulking Hurlers and tried my hand at one, using a tricked-out Orcish shotput, though when I showed it off, it apparently was underwhelming for a Hulking Hurler. My question here is what am I doing wrong? Can I not have my Metal Boulder of Doom and throw it, too? Is there something to the improvised rock of damage that I'm missing? Am I overlooking a Two-Handed Trick? Enlightenment, please!

[Amphetryon]

Use a bigger shotput.

[Douglas]

It's simple, really. You don't use any listed weapon, orc shotput or not, you use a giant boulder as an improvised weapon with damage based on weight. A 400 pound object does 5d6 damage. Every additional 200 pounds adds 1d6 more. These rules come from Complete Warrior page 159. Now take a look at the carrying capacity chart and note the x4 per additional +10 at the bottom, and that this scales using normal multiplication rules, not D&D multiplication - +20 is x16, not x7. Get your strength up to 60 or so and you'll start seeing some serious damage. The builds that got it up in the trillions did it primarily by boosting strength well past 100.

[Cieyrin]

Use a bigger shotput.

It's already a Gargantuan Shotput made of Lead (b/c I wanted to use the Heavy Weapon rules from MoF and didn't want to deal with alchemic gold or platinum b/c that'd be silly), how much bigger/heavier does it really need to be to be common Hulking Hurler fair?!?

[Eldariel]

Hulking Hurler uses the "Overburdened Heave" along with "Really Throw Anything" and very big rocks along with the weight/damage categories in CWar. Then you just pimp out your carrying capacity and throw ~10^10d6 worth of damage.

That's 'cause just being quadroped (Centaur is a nice chassis) multiplies your carrying capacity and so do size increases (Shapechange or Giant Size or whatever) and it just so happens that the same things also pimp out your Strength which sets the base bar leading to completely obscene growth in the carrying capacity. Then, all you need is a small mountain you carry around and throw on people.

[Douglas]

how much bigger/heavier does it really need to be to be common Hulking Hurler fair?!?

A) Use an improvised weapon, not an orc shotput of whatever size, using the weight-based damage rules for improvised weapons from Complete Warrior.
B) 50000 pounds is a good start, and probably all you'll realistically need, but serious aiming-for-a-record builds use rocks closer to 50000000000000 pounds.

[Amphetryon]

It's already a Gargantuan Shotput made of Lead (b/c I wanted to use the Heavy Weapon rules from MoF and didn't want to deal with alchemic gold or platinum b/c that'd be silly), how much bigger/heavier does it really need to be to be common Hulking Hurler fair?!?

Think Europa. Now enlarge it and make it lead.

[Zeta Kai]

Think Europa. Now enlarge it and make it lead.

Why stop there? Ganymede's just as close, & has ~50% more mass.

Callisto? 1.08 x 10^23kg
Ganymede? 1.48 x 10^23kg

[Starbuck_II]

Pluto's Replacemeant is Planet X (nicknamed Xena and named after her: Dysnomia, the Goddess of Lawlessness. Xena = Lucy Lawlessness.

Throw Xena!

[term1nally s1ck]

You generally don't max Hulking Hurler, you just want the 'really throw anything' ability.

Then stack as many Str increases as possible. Warhulk is decent, as are a fair selection of other classes. Barbarian for the rage, obviously.

[Eldariel]

You generally don't max Hulking Hurler, you just want the 'really throw anything' ability.

Then stack as many Str increases as possible. Warhulk is decent, as are a fair selection of other classes. Barbarian for the rage, obviously.

Eh, you want two levels for Overburden Heave.

[FishAreWet]

Just wrote this up for something else;

Improvised weapon damage is based on weight.
400lb is 5d6, each 200lb more does another 1d6. this doesn't sound crazy, does it? It is.

Let's say you're an Half-Ogre barbarian at ECL 10. Your strength score is

18 Base
+6 Enchantment
+2 Level
+6 Half Ogre
+4 Rage
=38 when raging.

Your medium load is 6400. 35d6 damage. This is on a build that many wouldn't even call optimized. What happens if you optimize? Shooting from the hip here...;

Illumian Archvist 17/Hulking Hurler 3

_18 Base (polymorphed into a Centaur)
+32 Giant Size
+06 Item
+05 Tome
+05 Level
=66 and you're a Colossal Quadruped.

You're medium load is 3766272lb. 18834d6. Who even cares what the strength bonus is, that's an average 65919 damage. Oh, yeah, you have 9th level spells. I didn't even feel like finding a better Quadruped form.

This was before I remember Bite of the Wearbear and Belt of the Wide Berth(double carrying capacity... doubles damage.

[Douglas]

_18 Base (polymorphed into a Centaur)
+05 Level

These two don't stack. The level increases are actually part of your base, so they get fully replaced by Polymorph.

Not that it really matters when you've already got the numbers that high.

[Otodetu]

These two don't stack. The level increases are actually part of your base, so they get fully replaced by Polymorph.

Not that it really matters when you've already got the numbers that high.

Hmm, really? this means that monsters gain these points too?
edit: as in it is already included in the stats of for example a behir?

[lord_khaine]

_18 Base (polymorphed into a Centaur)
+32 Giant Size
+06 Item
+05 Tome
+05 Level
=66 and you're a Colossal Quadruped.

I dont belive you can stack 2 shapechanging effects either, you would have to start as a Centaur.

[Heliomance]

No, you can stack polymorph and giant size. They're different sources, and giant size isn't even a polymorph effect. It just makes you really honking big. Yu cast polymorph first, then giant size.

[sonofzeal]

_18 Base (polymorphed into a Centaur)
+32 Giant Size
+06 Item
+05 Tome
+05 Level
=66 and you're a Colossal Quadruped.

The +5 Tome also doesn't apply in the new form. Check out this thread for a discussion on the issue.

[Douglas]

The +5 Tome also doesn't apply in the new form. Check out this thread for a discussion on the issue.

I read that thread and it didn't seem like it came to a clear consensus on that.

My take on RAW: It is a bonus. A bonus is not part of the base score. Period. Polymorph replaces the base score and only the base score. Inherent bonuses therefore carry over.

Levelup increases have quite specific and explicit language stating that they change what your actual base score is, and are not in any way a "bonus".

[FishAreWet]

The +5 Tome also doesn't apply in the new form. Check out this thread for a discussion on the issue.

I agree with Douglas that it's not clear, but even if it didn't, who cares? You knocked down the 18000d6 to 17000d6? Doesn't really matter.

and @douglas, as previously said, Giant Size isn't a Polymorph affect.

[lord_khaine]

No, you can stack polymorph and giant size. They're different sources, and giant size isn't even a polymorph effect. It just makes you really honking big. Yu cast polymorph first, then giant size.

If Giant size isnt a shapechanging effect, what the heck is it then?

[Heliomance]

It's in the transmutation school, doesn't make it a polymorph effect.

[tbarrie]

If Giant size isnt a shapechanging effect, what the heck is it then?

...a sizechanging effect?

Side point on Hulking Hurlers in general: I've heard people claim that the class allows for ridiculous levels of damage. But unless I'm misremembering, if your DM uses the improvised weapons rules from Complete Warrior, then any character with a high enough Strength can dish out the exact same damage. The Hulking Hurler class just compounds the problem by letting them do it at range.