Does this strike anyone else as ridiculous?

[Drakevarg]

I was just transfering a handwritten character sheet for an NPC onto my computer, and after the long and exhaustive process it occured to me that this guy seems to have way too many abilities. Just as a casual question, does anyone else agree with this assessment?

-----

Feats
Endure Sunlight (5 Rounds)
Corpsecrafter
Hardened Flesh
Destruction Retribution
Alertness
Combat Reflexes (5 AoO/Round)
Dodge
Improved Initiative
Lightning Reflexes

Special
Rebuke Undead 11/Day
Blood Drain
Children of the Night
Dominate (30 ft., Will DC 19)
Create Spawn (22 Spawn)
Energy Drain
Alternate Form (Dire Wolf)
Reduction 10/Silver and Magic
Fast Healing (Heal 5/Round)
Gaseous Form (Fly 20 ft.)
Resist Cold 10
Resist Electricity 10
Spider Climb
Turn Resistance +4
Death Touch (11d6)
Darkvision 60 ft.
Immunity to Mind Affecting
Immunity to Sleep
Immunity to Paralysis
Immunity to Poison
Immunity to Stunning
Immunity to Disease
Immunity to Criticals
Immunity to Nonlethal Damage
Immunity to Phys. Ability Damage
Immunity to Ability Drain
Immunity to Death Effects
Immunity to Energy Drain
Immunity to Fatigue
Immunity to Exhaustion
Immunity to Massive Damage

Languages
Common
Elven
Orcish
Abyssal
Celestial
Draconic

Spells (Death, Undeath) (6, 7+1, 6+1, 6+1, 4+1, 3+1, 2+1)
0- Inflict Minor Wounds x6
1- Inflict Light Wounds x7 (1d8 +5)
1U- Detect Undead
2- Inflict Moderate Wounds x6 (2d8 +10)
2U- Desecrate (22 Hours)
3- Inflict Serious Wounds x6 (3d8 +11)
3U- Animate Dead (44 HD Total)
4- Inflict Critical Wounds x4 (4d8 + 11)
4U- Death Ward (110 Rounds)
5- Mass Inflict Light Wounds x2 (1d8 +11) (11 Targets)
5- Unhallow
5U- Circle of Death (11d4 HD)
6- Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds (2d8 +11) (11 Targets)
6U- Create Undead (44 HD Total)

[Worira]

I can't help but notice that you've listed every undead immunity separately. That's rather like complaining that humans come with an opposable thumb, another opposable thumb, and 8 fingers on top of that.

[Drakevarg]

Well, it's more like the extention of a habit than anything. I always write down the immunities for, say, elves, and continue to do so even when the list gets absurdly long.

Besides, why do undead need immunity to everything that isn't blunt force trauma anyway?

...eh, whatever. Just let this thread die. Mostly posted it 'cause I was cranky after having to transcribe that whole thing...

[Thrawn183]

They have no con score, which means they have no con bonus to their fortitude saves, which means they fail pretty much any fortitude save they are forced to make.

Hence, all the immunities.

[Drakevarg]

I dunno, this fellow has a +7 Fort Save, which is relatively decent.

[Mushroom Ninja]

I dunno, this fellow has a +7 Fort Save, which is relatively decent.

Not at his level.

[Xefas]

Besides, why do undead need immunity to everything that isn't blunt force trauma anyway?

Well, because its not thematically appropriate for you to be able to punch out a vampire (nonlethal damage). You can't befuddle its senses, because it's basically non-sentient and doesn't know the difference (mind-affecting). There's no way any amount of trauma could give them pause for even a few seconds (stunning). Decapitation would have no effect (critical hits). And they have no physical body to speak of (physical ability damage).

[Worira]

What kind of vampires are you fighting?

[Soterion]

If this NPC's the villain, you're probably fine. On the other hand, if this NPC's the local innkeeper...

[sofawall]

What kind of vampires are you fighting?

I had the exact same thought.

[Coidzor]

You can't befuddle its senses, because it's basically non-sentient and doesn't know the difference (mind-affecting). There's no way any amount of trauma could give them pause for even a few seconds (stunning). Decapitation would have no effect (critical hits). And they have no physical body to speak of (physical ability damage).

Aside from, y'know, all of the sapient undead like vampires and ghouls and wights and liches and necropolitans which have minds.

The whole physical ability damage thing is part of why I was so interested by that tome of necromancy that was put out on the WOTC boards awhile back.

[Xefas]

Aside from, y'know, all of the sapient undead like vampires and ghouls and wights and liches and necropolitans which have minds.

The whole physical ability damage thing is part of why I was so interested by that tome of necromancy that was put out on the WOTC boards awhile back.

I was being sarcastic.

[bosssmiley]

I was just transfering a handwritten character sheet for an NPC onto my computer, and after the long and exhaustive process it occured to me that this guy seems to have way too many abilities. Just as a casual question, does anyone else agree with this assessment?

Spoiler

Show

Feats
Endure Sunlight (5 Rounds)
Corpsecrafter
Hardened Flesh
Destruction Retribution
Alertness
Combat Reflexes (5 AoO/Round)
Dodge
Improved Initiative
Lightning Reflexes

Special
Rebuke Undead 11/Day
Blood Drain
Children of the Night
Dominate (30 ft., Will DC 19)
Create Spawn (22 Spawn)
Energy Drain
Alternate Form (Dire Wolf)
Reduction 10/Silver and Magic
Fast Healing (Heal 5/Round)
Gaseous Form (Fly 20 ft.)
Resist Cold 10
Resist Electricity 10
Spider Climb
Turn Resistance +4
Death Touch (11d6)
Darkvision 60 ft.
Immunity to Mind Affecting
Immunity to Sleep
Immunity to Paralysis
Immunity to Poison
Immunity to Stunning
Immunity to Disease
Immunity to Criticals
Immunity to Nonlethal Damage
Immunity to Phys. Ability Damage
Immunity to Ability Drain
Immunity to Death Effects
Immunity to Energy Drain
Immunity to Fatigue
Immunity to Exhaustion
Immunity to Massive Damage

Languages
Common
Elven
Orcish
Abyssal
Celestial
Draconic

Spells (Death, Undeath) (6, 7+1, 6+1, 6+1, 4+1, 3+1, 2+1)
0- Inflict Minor Wounds x6
1- Inflict Light Wounds x7 (1d8 +5)
1U- Detect Undead
2- Inflict Moderate Wounds x6 (2d8 +10)
2U- Desecrate (22 Hours)
3- Inflict Serious Wounds x6 (3d8 +11)
3U- Animate Dead (44 HD Total)
4- Inflict Critical Wounds x4 (4d8 + 11)
4U- Death Ward (110 Rounds)
5- Mass Inflict Light Wounds x2 (1d8 +11) (11 Targets)
5- Unhallow
5U- Circle of Death (11d4 HD)
6- Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds (2d8 +11) (11 Targets)
6U- Create Undead (44 HD Total)

This is precisely what finally killed 3E for me. Too many fiddly little things to remember, and too much time wasted honing every last nuance of a build. Life's too short for a hobby that requires spreadsheets.

Now I play a version of D&D where char gen takes 5 minutes, encounter building is as easy as 2-3 rolls on a table (monster, motivation, complication), and dungeon generation takes about ~3 hours for a weekend of play.

B/X D&D: The road back is the way forward.

[deuxhero]

Decapitation would have no effect (critical hits).

What about stabbing it in the heart though?

[Xefas]

What about stabbing it in the heart though?

Nah, that's more of a sneak attack, and it's immune to those too. Still sarcasm, for the record. I generally use a modified undead type for the sentient ones.

[deuxhero]

I did like the tome undead, got rid of the silly rules.

[Otodetu]

This is precisely what finally killed 3E for me. Too many fiddly little things to remember, and too much time wasted honing every last nuance of a build. Life's too short for a hobby that requires spreadsheets.

Now I play a version of D&D where char gen takes 5 minutes, encounter building is as easy as 2-3 rolls on a table (monster, motivation, complication), and dungeon generation takes about ~3 hours for a weekend of play.

B/X D&D: The road back is the way forward.

I disagree.
The core rules are quite possible to memorize without much effort.
And no-one sane writes down all the immunities of undead, you write undead, and then rememberer or use the power of the d20srd.

[lord_khaine]

This is precisely what finally killed 3E for me. Too many fiddly little things to remember, and too much time wasted honing every last nuance of a build. Life's too short for a hobby that requires spreadsheets.

Now I play a version of D&D where char gen takes 5 minutes, encounter building is as easy as 2-3 rolls on a table (monster, motivation, complication), and dungeon generation takes about ~3 hours for a weekend of play.

B/X D&D: The road back is the way forward.

And thats why im still playing this game, if i wantet a simple game i would be playing ludo.

Also, as allready mentioned its not hard to remember all the core rules.

[Indon]

He has a lot of feats for a level 11 cleric, but I forget how many HD Vampires have.

[TheCountAlucard]

He has a lot of feats for a level 11 cleric, but I forget how many HD Vampires have.

Vampires don't have any HD inherent to being vampires, but they do get a load of bonus feats.

[Drakevarg]

Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative and Lightning Reflexes are all bonus feats for Vamps.

[bosssmiley]

I disagree. The core rules are quite possible to memorize without much effort.

O RLY?

• Name the ~20 bonus types in the SRD without reference to any books, online SRD, or other external assistance. (Hard Mode: Which bonus types stack? Which don't?)
• Flowchart grappling by RAW without reference to the rulebook/SRD.

Enough of the Core Rules to play cargo cult 3E, I'll concede. But memorizing the RAW?

@v & vv: "Burn the Witch!" </Tristan>

[Flickerdart]

O RLY?

• Name the ~20 bonus types in the SRD without reference to any books, online SRD, or other external assistance. (Hard Mode: Which bonus types stack? Which don't?)

Enough of the Core Rules to play cargo cult 3E, I'll concede. But memorizing the RAW?

Mm...racial, untyped, dodge, armor, shield, deflection, enhancement, inherent, natural armour, insight, competence, circumstance. Those are all I can remember off the top of my head. Circumstance, dodge and untyped are, I believe, the only ones that stack with themselves.

[Worira]

Mm...racial, untyped, dodge, armor, shield, deflection, enhancement, inherent, natural armour, insight, competence, circumstance. Those are all I can remember off the top of my head. Circumstance, dodge and untyped are, I believe, the only ones that stack with themselves.

Add luck, sacred, profane (sacred and profane bonuses do not stack with each other), synergy, and size to that, and you've got what I remember.

As for grappling, yes, I could make a flowchart, although I'd probably miss one or two or the less-used options. I'm not, however, going to bother.

Edit: also Vile and Exalted, I believe.

[TheCountAlucard]

Everybody forgets about alchemical bonuses...

[DabblerWizard]

I was just transfering a handwritten character sheet for an NPC onto my computer, and after the long and exhaustive process it occured to me that this guy seems to have way too many abilities. Just as a casual question, does anyone else agree with this assessment?

[Far too many stats for a regular NPC]

You wouldn't want your NPC to become so special that it becomes a DMPC of doom.

I do think it's a bit ridiculous.

[Solaris]

You wouldn't want your NPC to become so special that it becomes a DMPC of doom.

I do think it's a bit ridiculous.

I'm not seeing how you get 'DMPC of doom' from the list of abilities from a high-level character.
Unless we're talking about 2nd-level PCs and this guy's showing up to smack them around for being stupid. Then, y'know...

[Matthew]

This is precisely what finally killed 3E for me. Too many fiddly little things to remember, and too much time wasted honing every last nuance of a build. Life's too short for a hobby that requires spreadsheets.

Now I play a version of D&D where char gen takes 5 minutes, encounter building is as easy as 2-3 rolls on a table (monster, motivation, complication), and dungeon generation takes about ~3 hours for a weekend of play.

B/X D&D: The road back is the way forward.

Sing it! Yeah, I would tend to agree. I can quite happily play D20/3e, but I would never want to have to be the game master again, it is just not worth the effort.

[taltamir]

listing every ability separately is necessary as we cannot remember every single immunity and ability ourselves... thats why we write things down.
And yes, this results in ludicrously long ability lists