All The Best Heroes Are Bards

[rockdeworld]

Before I start, let me note that I have never actually played a bard. This is all just from having looked at the class. Now, having said that... PEACH

This is something I was thinking about as I listened to some classical music tonight - as far as I know, all Disney movies have musical numbers in them (and a lot of other good movies do as well), and in most cases the music serves to provide insight into a character, build a relationship between characters, or advance the plot. Take Aladdin for example, in the scene where Aladdin and Jasmine sing "A Whole New World." Imagine for a moment that Aladdin were a DnD bard, and he started singing, using fascinate while he did so to get the princess's interest. Similarly, with a bard's slew of abilities and skill points, the bard class can double as a rogue, or "street rat" (as several people call Aladdin).

That's just one example. But I think it's a good template in general - a bard's goal lead his allies in adventure, support them when they need help, stop the bad guy, save the world, and get the girl. Most fantasy heroes are the same. And the bard class itself - with medium BAB, good reflex and will saves, decent weapon selection, armor proficiency, even the ability to cast spells (and in armor no less!) - is a well-rounded class that can go in a lot of different directions. Its one failing may be the mediocre hit points, but not all heroes are the kind who charge into battle with the sole intention of slaying everyone that comes between them and their goal (in fact, I'd venture to say that outside of video-games, very few are).

And specifically with regards to spells, bards also have a variety of spells that serve them in battle, utility, and social situations. Grease, sleep, alarm, animate rope, charm person, and comprehend languages (among others - too many to list here) are all bard spells that would be useful in a number of real-life situations (of the sort that tend to happen in fantasy epics).

While it's not the best as far as most optimizers are concerned (the ones that don't optimize diplomacy anyway), the bard is a reasonable first choice when it comes to choosing classes. Like most heroes in the great fantasy stories, the bard is a leader - someone who can draw people together and support them in reaching their goals for the greater good. And it's rated as a Tier 3 class - the same as swordsage in case you're wondering - so it's certainly not all bad.

Put simply, bards can usually do many things moderately well, and with a little effort they can do a few things very well.

And that all has to do with roll-playing. Role-playing, as the other half of the game (or more, depending on your DM) deserves mention too. To start off with, bards have the best plot reasons for doing just about anything! Just say "it makes for a great story!" and you're set to go. And if you should happen to meet up with a few savvy adventurers who you can convince to join you, gain some experience by overcoming a slew of difficulties, get involved in a romantic relationship, and maybe save the world - why, that's all just icing on the cake.

And don't let that first possibility fool you - how many happy groups of wandering adventurers would ever come together in the first place if it weren't for a charismatic leader to guide them like the bard? Sure, there's those rare groups of people who recognize that they share a common purpose and need to travel together for awhile - but like most online MMORPGs (which I reference with the idea that most people reading this have played one), once that purpose is done - defeating an enemy (note: OOTS), exploring a dungeon, or collecting some treasure - the group tends to disperse. But if someone like a bard can convince people to stay - that they're better off together than apart - why then who knows what could happen?

Think, if you know the game, of the main character of Suikoden. He's the guiding star, who is destined to bring other people together in order to defeat a great enemy - and that's exactly what he does. While not exceptional at any one thing himself, the hero attracts people to him, and together they build an army that eventually manages to bring down the oppressive and corrupt empire that he grew up in.

Think again, of the main character of Final Fantasy VIII - Squall. You could argue that he's more of a spellsword or somesuch class, but fluffwise remember how he is the one who guides the group, who everyone looks to when their home and sense of purpose has crumbled away, and who eventually does save the girl he loves and then the world along with it - and looking cool while doing it.

Say what you will about bards - they can't hit as hard as a fighter, they can't cast spells as good as any full-casting class, they can't fully utilize a ton of useful skills like the rogue, but don't knock the bard class, because all the best heroes are bards.

[Belobog]

Think, if you know the game, of the main character of Suikoden. He's the guiding star, who is destined to bring other people together in order to defeat a great enemy - and that's exactly what he does. While not exceptional at any one thing himself, the hero attracts people to him, and together they build an army that eventually manages to bring down the oppressive and corrupt empire that he grew up in.

This might be just me, here, but I always thought the main thing of that particular series is that it's a toss-up of whether it's

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the True Rune the main character possesses that gives him this presence and his 'star status'...

...Or if the main character is Just That Good. It could also be both. Or Fate. Still, it's an interesting thought. The world could use more theatrical main characters.

[Temotei]

Not all leaders have to be bards though. What you're saying implies that leaders are almost always bards. Paladins, clerics, and sorcerers often have great Charisma too.

I agree that bards make a good hero--usually. Aladdin is a stretch. Not once did he seem to use a magical ability (other than getting Genie and the magic carpet, etc.--magic items) that I remember. The singing could be explained by...good Perform, or just a good voice.

Not sure about the other examples.

Also, look at the Greeks. Out of the Greek heroes I remember, the ones that were my favorites were not singers/spellcasters in any regards.

Same with a lot of literature.

[Aldizog]

And don't forget, the bard has Tumble and Balance as class skills, which are great for all kinds of heroic exploits. He's basically the core Swashbuckler.

The music certainly isn't the only thing that makes a bard -- as you note, the skills, saves, weapons, armor, and spells (which could be refluffed as just bursts of heroism) make for a nice well-rounded mythic/cinematic hero type.

[Temotei]

I agree on a lot of your points though.

Captain Jack Sparrow probably had a level or two of bard. Maybe a spell-less variant? Or maybe he took the spells that just boost Jump or something. Or charm person, etc.

Interesting...

[Lycanthromancer]

All the best heroes are bards.

And all the best bards are straight.

Which is funny, since stereotypically gay guys do acting and singing a lot more than straight guys do.

...So why are most actors ostensibly straight?

[Marillion]

Bards. So you can't kill like a fighter, steal like a rogue, heal like a cleric, or cast like a wizard. Who cares? You always get the wine, women, song.

[dyslexicfaser]

Think again, of the main character of Final Fantasy VIII - Squall. You could argue that he's more of a spellsword or somesuch class, but fluffwise remember how he is the one who guides the group, who everyone looks to when their home and sense of purpose has crumbled away, and who eventually does save the girl he loves and then the world along with it - and looking cool while doing it.

A bard that does as little talking as he can get away with?

Blasphemy!

Also, while you make some good points, please allow me this small rebuttal.

That is all. Thank you.

[Vaynor]

Bards. So you can't kill like a fighter, steal like a rogue, heal like a cleric, or cast like a wizard. Who cares? You always get the wine, women, song.

Wrong, for the most part. With a little optimization and use of a few splat books, bards can deal insane damage both on their own but also improving their ally's damage by a large margin as well. Sublime Chord grants you up to level 9 spells and fairly good ones at that, a quick dip into crusader gives you Song of the White Raven (swift inspire courage), Snowflake Wardance for some pretty nifty increased weapon damage (+Cha mod to weapon damage per perform rank), Words of Creation (doubles inspire courage bonus), Song of the Heart (+1 inspire courage), Dragonfire Inspiration (+1d6 fire damage per point of inspire courage increase, which ), Seeker of the Song Prc (2 level dip to combine inspire courage and inspire greatness), and other boosts allow the bard to deal insane melee damage while still buffing his party. I've seen weapon bonuses something +12+Cha to attack and +15+10d6 damage per attack on a mid level bard.

Edit: Just ignore me, I really need to get some sleep.

[Marillion]

Wrong, for the most part. With a little optimization and use of a few splat books, bards can deal insane damage both on their own but also improving their ally's damage by a large margin as well. Sublime Chord grants you up to level 9 spells and fairly good ones at that, a quick dip into crusader gives you Song of the White Raven (swift inspire courage), Snowflake Wardance for some pretty nifty increased weapon damage (+Cha mod to weapon damage per perform rank), Words of Creation (doubles inspire courage bonus), Song of the Heart (+1 inspire courage), Dragonfire Inspiration (+1d6 fire damage per point of inspire courage increase, which ), Seeker of the Song Prc (2 level dip to combine inspire courage and inspire greatness), and other boosts allow the bard to deal insane melee damage while still buffing his party. I've seen weapon bonuses something +12+Cha to attack and +15+10d6 damage per attack on a mid level bard.

You, uh...You kinda missed the point...

[Touchy]

All the best heroes are bards.

And all the best bards are straight.

Which is funny, since stereotypically gay guys do acting and singing a lot more than straight guys do.

...So why are most actors ostensibly straight?

Because, that's what it is, a stereotype, which has a root in reality, but is not true. The accent of stereotypical gay would also limit the amount of possibilities as well.

[Tackyhillbillu]

I disagree. The best Heroes are Factotums.

[chiasaur11]

Weird thing.

In Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, the small, street smart guy with some magical training?

Probably not a bard.

The seven foot tall barbarian with a longsword and an axe?

No magic, but the guy does a fair deal of singing, some of everything, can play a crowd...

[Kris Strife]

Actually, bards are terrible heroes. They're just the only ones who can make up their own publicity for it.

Think about it. How do the tales of the heroes' epic deeds get spread around? Bards! Who writes the songs of valor in the face of impending doom? Bards! Even the 'magical effects' of their music can be easily explained! Who here hasn't become excited or had goosebumps from an awesome/moving song. Extra accuracy and jumping ability? Just your standard adrenline rush. Enemies have negative effects? Sad, slow music that leaves you feeling depressed and drained.

Seriously, why share the credit with the rest of your party, when you can take it all for yourself and look like the greatest hero ever? Why admit all you did was play an inspiring or depressing song, when you can say you have 'magical music powers'? And as for the few spells they can cast? They're just weak sorcerers who don't have the amount of power as others.

[bosssmiley]

The best heroes are Bards in 3E terms?

John Carter, Elric of Melnibone, Red Kane, Conan the Cimmerian, Holger Karlsen, King Arthur, Aragorn and Sam Gamgee want a word with you...

That said, remove their sappy "induce musical interlude" powers, refluff bardic magic as scene-stealing stunts rather than being the work of a ponce with a mandolin, and the bard is the classic swashbuckler.

[Radar]

@Kris Strife
As a bard you're not just an adventurer, you're gentelmen adventurer.
(not exactly, but sort of like him)

[Evard]

really alladin wasn't a hero... just kinda got thrusted into that position

Most heroes are not bards, most heroes are conned into being heroes by bards -_-;;;

in a party of 4-5 1 will be a bard... and if they all go on the same adventure then only 1/4 to 1/5 of the great heroes are bards :p


edit: the best heroes are monks... look at any Jackie Chan movie :D

[Gametime]

The best heroes are Bards in 3E terms?

John Carter, Elric of Melnibone, Red Kane, Conan the Cimmerian, Holger Karlsen, King Arthur, Aragorn and Sam Gamgee want a word with you...

That said, remove their sappy "induce musical interlude" powers, refluff bardic magic as scene-stealing stunts rather than being the work of a ponce with a mandolin, and the bard is the classic swashbuckler.

To be fair, Conan clearly rolled 18's in every stat and is some kind of world-breaking hybrid of homebrewed martial classes.

[AtwasAwamps]

To be fair, Conan clearly rolled 18's in every stat and is some kind of world-breaking hybrid of homebrewed martial classes.

No, he just cheated.

[Aldizog]

That said, remove their sappy "induce musical interlude" powers, refluff bardic magic as scene-stealing stunts rather than being the work of a ponce with a mandolin, and the bard is the classic swashbuckler.

Even without refluffling, you could quite well take Perform (Oratory) as the skill, where the Bard uses Inspire Courage by shouting some defiant challenge at the creature of evil. Pretty classic staple of movies, literature, etc.

But for those who want to use music, why not? Why is it any more sappy or silly or "ponce"-y than muttering nonsense syllables and waving your hands? It's just a kind of magic. The bard plays a single chord and power surges through his allies. Works for me.

[Kris Strife]

To be fair, Conan clearly rolled 18's in every stat and is some kind of world-breaking hybrid of homebrewed martial classes.

Gestalt Barbarian//Warblade with focus on Diamond Mind, Iron Heart and Stone Dragon disciplines?

[chiasaur11]

Gestalt Barbarian//Warblade with focus on Diamond Mind, Iron Heart and Stone Dragon disciplines?

How do you handle the thieving, then?

[Deepblue706]

No. NO.

Conan was a level 20 gestalt Fighter/Bonus Feat Rogue in a world where every other character is forced to play by E6 rules.

[taltamir]

bards are surprisingly powerful...
I don't get why people always rag on them...

[Kris Strife]

How do you handle the thieving, then?

Able Learner feat to get maxed out ranks in Climb, Jump, Move Silently, Open Lock, Hide, etc.

[Zaydos]

The best heroes: factotums. You can do some of everything.

Conan: Gestalt Warblade//Feat Rogue

Also real warriors have max ranks in Perform (Oratory), just ask a viking.

[Soranar]

alright, so many things to comment

actors are rarely gay??? seriously , the ratio between straight and gay is reversed in theater and musicals (1/10)

hollywood actors and singers are often gay too, it's just not good for business when they are (how long did it take people to realize Ricky Martin was gay? and what has he done since?)

Alladin was no bard, he's just a rogue with ranks in Perform and UMD

the best heroes

Chuck, maybe Batman : only Factotum heroes I can think of, sorry but Factotums are rarely heroes but often sidekicks

Barbarian heroes: Conan , Superman (with an ECL +20 race), nearly every guy in the 13th Warrior

Figther: Achilles, Ajax, the 300 , a couple of guys in the 13th warrior, nearly every guy in a war movie

Monk/unarmed swordsage: Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee, sometimes Jean-Claude Van Damne ,Jet Li, Chuck Norris

Paladins: Charlemagne (with lots of Leadership feats), Joan of Arc (with Saint template), Roland, Lancelot (fallen), every other member of the round table

Cleric: that priest that used a mace to go on a crusade (which inspired the class in the first place)

Rogue: nearly every lead in a caper movie

Swashbuckler: cape and sword genre movies, musketeers

Rangers: Rambo (favored ennemy: human), a few war movies leads

Bard: ...?

[taltamir]

Monk/unarmed swordsage: Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee, sometimes Jean-Claude Van Damne ,Jet Li, Chuck Norris

Those are all monks...
unarmed swordsages can shoot fire from their punches and the like... aka, all the mortal combat guys, street fighter guys, etc...
chun li is an unarmed swordsage, jet li is a monk. And that is debatable because they are not killing people with every punch... most are just fighter WITHOUT the improved unarmed strike feat and a refusal to use a real weapon.

As far as bard being none... why? you seem to say "unarmed fighter is monk"... superman raging I can somehow see as he can throw off cryptonite when angry (improved fort save? aka, increase in con?)...
clerics paladins and rangers all got magic spells, so does bard. If his music isn't magic then what else does the class do? it is a mediocre fighter that travels and tells stories and entertains... they do not have to perform in music, they can dance or drum or whatever.

Most heroes are an amalgam of various classes and cannot be put into any one single class.
superman was an expert (lots of skill points but essentially an NPC class) with an ECL +N race. (N being at least 20, I am thinking easily over 50)...

think about it, nothing he could ever face would be a challenge enough to give him XP; and his "day job" wasn't something amazing like wizard or even soldier (remember wolverine was an actual soldier)... no he went to college, got a degree in liberal arts, and went to work as a news reporter...

[Soranar]

Those are all monks...
unarmed swordsages can shoot fire from their punches and the like... aka, all the mortal combat guys, street fighter guys, etc...
chun li is an unarmed swordsage, jet li is a monk.

As far as bard being none... why? you seem to say "unarmed fighter is monk"... superman raging I can somehow see...
clerics paladins and rangers all got magic spells, so does bard. If his music isn't magic then what else does the class do? it is a mediocre fighter that travels and tells stories and entertains... they do not have to perform in music, they can dance or drum or whatever.

Most heroes are an amalgam of various classes and cannot be put into any one single class.

all the monk/swordsage I've mentioned have played fists of flame or other magic properties at one point except Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee... you just need to watch more Chinese cinema

while it's true you can't put most heroes in classes sometimes it applies

and if you lack the wisdom you can't cast spells and there are non-spellcasting variants

[Xey42]

Lets not forget Indiana Jones, who's a pretty awesome factotum