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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default wyrmfire (3.5 tactical breath weapon feat)

    Wyrmfire [Metabreath; Tactical]

    You are extremely proficient with your breath weapon and its employment on the battlefield, and know a good number of strategic maneuvers that maximize its efficiency.
    Prerequisites: Fly speed, breath weapon, Flyby Attack, Flyby Breath, any metabreath feat
    Benefit: You gain the use of three combat maneuvers.
    scorching burst: You can make your breath weapon a ranged touch attack instead of an area attack, affecting only one target at a time, but can make iterative attacks with it as a primary weapon. The breath weapon now has a range equal to a line-shaped breath weapon of a true dragon of your size category (80 feet for a Large dragon, 120 feet for a Gargantuan dragon, etc). This ability adds two rounds to the recharge time of your breath weapon.
    setting the fields aflame: When you use the Flyby Breath feat, you can extend the effect of your breath weapon across a larger area. In effect, you get to use your breath weapon twice during the double move, though it still only counts as using the breath weapon once. You must choose at which points along the route of your movement you initiate the breath weapons, and they then take effect normally, though a targeted area, object, or creature is only subject to the effect once, even if the breath weapon areas overlap (if using scorching burst, individual areas, objects, or creatures can only be targeted once). This ability adds one round to the recharge time of your breath weapon. If used with scorching burst, you essentially get to make two full attacks worth of ranged touch attacks during the double move, though you can take no other actions.
    flaming bolt: If you use the Flyby feat for just one breath weapon attack, instead of two with setting the fields aflame, as a free action, you can conclude the movement with a charge attack. The target of your charge attack must have been included in the area of your breath weapon (or must have been targeted by one of the ranged touch attack breath weapons), and your movement for the round stops at the resolution of the charge attack. You are then considered checked until the end of your next turn.
    Last edited by Stycotl; 2010-01-19 at 11:59 PM.
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    PairO'Dice Lost's Avatar

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    Default Re: wyrmfire (3.5 tactical breath weapon feat)

    Well, I can definitely say a tactical metabreath feat is something I never thought to see. A few tweaks I'd suggest:

    Quote Originally Posted by Stycotl
    scorching burst: You can make your breath weapon a ranged touch attack instead of an area attack, affecting only one target at a time, but can make iterative attacks with it as a primary weapon. This ability adds one round to the recharge time of your breath weapon.
    Generally "primary weapon" and "secondary weapon" refer to natural weapons, which don't get iterative attacks, so that could be confusing. That should probably be phrased something like "can make iterative attacks with it as your base attack bonus allows" or "can make iterative attacks with it as if it were a manufactured weapon" or similar.

    setting the fields aflame: When you use the Flyby Breath feat, you can extend the effect of your breath weapon across a larger area. In effect, you get to use your breath weapon twice during the double move, though it still only counts as using the breath weapon once. You must choose at which points along the route of your movement you initiate the breath weapons, and they then take effect normally. This ability adds two rounds to the recharge time of your breath weapon. If used with scorching burst, you essentially get to make two full attacks worth of ranged touch attacks during the double move, though you can take no other actions.
    You might want to put in that the two uses of the breath weapon can't overlap, or else characters would be more likely to simply double up the area for double damage rather than spreading it around.
    Last edited by PairO'Dice Lost; 2010-01-17 at 02:36 AM.
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    Default Re: wyrmfire (3.5 tactical breath weapon feat)

    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    Well, I can definitely say a tactical metabreath feat is something I never thought to see. A few tweaks I'd suggest:
    it started out as a tactical feat and slowly took on metabreath traits.

    evolution...

    Generally "primary weapon" and "secondary weapon" refer to natural weapons, which don't get iterative attacks, so that could be confusing. That should probably be phrased something like "can make iterative attacks with it as your base attack bonus allows" or "can make iterative attacks with it as if it were a manufactured weapon" or similar.
    oops; got my houserules mixed up with normal rules again. good suggestions; i'll fix the wording accordingly.

    You might want to put in that the two uses of the breath weapon can't overlap, or else characters would be more likely to simply double up the area for double damage rather than spreading it around.
    this is a great idea. i definitely did not want the same areas being affected more than once.

    i think i will just say that a certain area can only be affected once; this way, if the character needs the effects to overlap because of space issues or something, they can––but it'll only damage a target once.

    similarly, when using scorching burst with setting the fields aflame, each ranged touch attack would have to be aimed at a separate target.

    hmm, or a target could only be struck once. more thinking to do.

    thanks for the response. good suggestions.
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    Default Re: wyrmfire (3.5 tactical breath weapon feat)

    One Word : Scary !

    However I like it a lot, just not sure yet about the balance, will try my best to use it in a simulation game with some friends if time work that way...

    Thank you the idea of having Tactical feat of that sort is really a good idea

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    Default Re: wyrmfire (3.5 tactical breath weapon feat)

    This is an awesome feat, but maybe you should make a note that you can only use one tactical option at a time to create a limit on it, otherwise it seems like it might be to much.
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    Default Re: wyrmfire (3.5 tactical breath weapon feat)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stycotl View Post
    i think i will just say that a certain area can only be affected once; this way, if the character needs the effects to overlap because of space issues or something, they can––but it'll only damage a target once.

    similarly, when using scorching burst with setting the fields aflame, each ranged touch attack would have to be aimed at a separate target.

    hmm, or a target could only be struck once. more thinking to do.
    A good wording would be something along the lines of "Even if a single creature is struck twice using this maneuver (or is targeted by multiple successful touch attacks, if using Scorching Burst), it can only be subject to your breath weapon once."
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    Default Re: wyrmfire (3.5 tactical breath weapon feat)

    Might want to tweak the phrasing a bit. I'm a big Dragonfire Adept player, so this kind of stuff is relevant to my interests. There is, however, a wording concern in the recharge times. The DFA doesn't HAVE a breath weapon recharge time to add to, so could they use these for free? Probably not your intention, but the wording would let a DFA get away with that.

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    Default Re: wyrmfire (3.5 tactical breath weapon feat)

    Well, that is how all meta-breath feats work (although he might or might not have nailed the wording), so the issue is probably not something that hasn't already been covered.
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    Default Re: wyrmfire (3.5 tactical breath weapon feat)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyooz View Post
    Might want to tweak the phrasing a bit. I'm a big Dragonfire Adept player, so this kind of stuff is relevant to my interests. There is, however, a wording concern in the recharge times. The DFA doesn't HAVE a breath weapon recharge time to add to, so could they use these for free? Probably not your intention, but the wording would let a DFA get away with that.
    Metabreath feats require a breath weapon with a recharge time measured in rounds (hmm dragonomicon iirc)

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    Default Re: wyrmfire (3.5 tactical breath weapon feat)

    You must have a breath weapon with a recharge time measured in rounds to use metabreath feats, so that's not a problem.

    Edit: Ninja'd. And yes it's from the Draconomicon.
    Last edited by Zaydos; 2010-01-18 at 02:13 AM.
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    Default Re: wyrmfire (3.5 tactical breath weapon feat)

    i think i will just say that a certain area can only be affected once; this way, if the character needs the effects to overlap because of space issues or something, they can––but it'll only damage a target once.

    similarly, when using scorching burst with setting the fields aflame, each ranged touch attack would have to be aimed at a separate target.

    hmm, or a target could only be struck once. more thinking to do.
    This was my only problem, being able to double move and do two-full TOUCH ATTACK actions on an opponent would be devastating and you're even kiting at the same time.


    Ohh yes one more thing, you need to give the scorching burst a range or range increment :)

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    Default Re: wyrmfire (3.5 tactical breath weapon feat)

    thanks for the responses, playgrounders. nice to see some well-thought analysis on the feat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xzoltar View Post
    One Word : Scary !

    However I like it a lot, just not sure yet about the balance, will try my best to use it in a simulation game with some friends if time work that way...

    Thank you the idea of having Tactical feat of that sort is really a good idea
    thanks, and you're welcome, both at once.

    balance-wise, i'm not yet sure either, but i think with the inclusion of recharge penalties, it works itself out.

    Quote Originally Posted by lightningcat View Post
    This is an awesome feat, but maybe you should make a note that you can only use one tactical option at a time to create a limit on it, otherwise it seems like it might be to much.
    i specifically want the user to be able to mix and match actions. but, i still want it to be balanced.

    as is, i don't think that any combo is too powerful, though i could be wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    A good wording would be something along the lines of "Even if a single creature is struck twice using this maneuver (or is targeted by multiple successful touch attacks, if using Scorching Burst), it can only be subject to your breath weapon once."
    nice. i'll adapt and use that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyooz View Post
    Might want to tweak the phrasing a bit. I'm a big Dragonfire Adept player, so this kind of stuff is relevant to my interests. There is, however, a wording concern in the recharge times. The DFA doesn't HAVE a breath weapon recharge time to add to, so could they use these for free? Probably not your intention, but the wording would let a DFA get away with that.
    i've actually been toying with the idea of letting DFAs and dragon shamans use it too, but imposing the recharge penalty on them. i have no idea yet how balanced it would be, and i am fairly sure that i would have to impose not only the feat penalty (+2 rounds, etc), but that i would have to impose the initial +1d4 rounds (so that it becomes 2d4+2 rounds, etc).

    still on the back burner though, and i have yet to consider all of the implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikka View Post
    This was my only problem, being able to double move and do two-full TOUCH ATTACK actions on an opponent would be devastating and you're even kiting at the same time.
    precisely.

    Ohh yes one more thing, you need to give the scorching burst a range or range increment :)
    i had just figured on using the range of the breath weapon to begin with, but that does rather gimp the dragons that don't use line-style breath weapons.

    i'll fix that.

    EDIT: i am considering swapping the recharge penalties for scorching burst and setting the fields aflame.

    as of now, scorching burst has a +1-round recharge, and fields aflame has a +2-round recharge. that was because upon initial observation, i thought that scorching was weaker than fields. i now think that to be the opposite.

    any thoughts?
    Last edited by Stycotl; 2010-01-18 at 10:56 PM.
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    Default Re: wyrmfire (3.5 tactical breath weapon feat)

    all right; whatever. i'm switching them: scorching burst is now +2 rounds, and setting the fields aflame is now +1 round.
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