Half Golem Template Confusion

[Commander_Vimes]

I'm looking at the half golem template (MMII) and it seem ridiculously overpowered. As far as I can tell you just need one will save to get one graft and you can have +11 NA, +12 Str, good DR, Magic resistance, and a breath weapon, all for no level adjustment. I swear I'm missing something but I can't find it.

[herrhauptmann]

But don't you lose a LOT of stuff if you fail that save? Also, is the breathweapon any good? Most of the ones available to players sorta suck.

edit: Forgot to say: Besides, it's MM2. That book was especially poorly edited, partly cuz its a mix of 3.0 and 3.5.

[sofawall]

I'm looking at the half golem template (MMII) and it seem ridiculously overpowered. As far as I can tell you just need one will save to get one graft and you can have +11 NA, +12 Str, good DR, Magic resistance, and a breath weapon, all for no level adjustment. I swear I'm missing something but I can't find it.

See, that's the part that confused me. If I remember correctly, it isn't LA+0, but actually no LA.Is it a graft or a template? If it is a template, it has an LA. If it has no LA listed, or LA:--, it isn't for players.

Does it have a CR+X entry? If so, it is for NPCs only.

[Zaydos]

The book was from before Savage Species and they don't really list LA in it at all, just like the 3.0 Monster Manual?

[Commander_Vimes]

-2 Dex -6 Int -6 Cha, and can't run are the only disadvantages I can find. If you fail a will save from one of the grafts you become a construct (not necessarily bad) and become neutral evil.

Edit: It is 3.0, I can't find LA anywhere. There is CR+3.

Where would I find that this is not permitted for PCs?

[sofawall]

-2 Dex -6 Int -6 Cha, and can't run are the only disadvantages I can find. If you fail a will save from one of the grafts you become a construct (not necessarily bad) and become neutral evil.

Edit: It is 3.0, I can't find LA anywhere. There is CR+3.

Where would I find that this is not permitted for PCs?

Right there.

EDIT: Alternatively, the update booklet that lists all of them as LA:-

[Commander_Vimes]

Thanks for the replies question is answered.

[Ravens_cry]

Is there a lesser version that WOULD be suitable for players?
I haven't seen the template, but why would a half-GOLEM get a breath weapon? It doesn't seem like it fits thematically.

[awa]

iron golems have a breath weapon

[Kelb_Panthera]

Unfortunately there was no LA at the beginning of 3ed. Consequently some of the very earliest books don't list a LA for creatures that would otherwise make interesting characters. MM2 is one such book. If you wanna allow something from one of these books you're going to have to "eyeball" the level adjustment.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

I'd put it around LA +4 or +5 myself if you're using the 3.5 version of spell immunity; yeah, natural armor, Str, DR, and SR Yes are nice, but not so nice that they're completely unsuitable for PCs.

[ShippoWildheart]

Is there a lesser version that WOULD be suitable for players?
I haven't seen the template, but why would a half-GOLEM get a breath weapon? It doesn't seem like it fits thematically.

Dragons can get it on with anything. ANYTHING. Half-dragon ooze anybody?

Let's just say a half-golem template that lets you use a breath weapon exists because it is awesome.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Is there a lesser version that WOULD be suitable for players?

Warforged.

[sofawall]

Unfortunately there was no LA at the beginning of 3ed. Consequently some of the very earliest books don't list a LA for creatures that would otherwise make interesting characters. MM2 is one such book. If you wanna allow something from one of these books you're going to have to "eyeball" the level adjustment.

Alternatively, use the handy 3.5 conversion guide WotC released, putting all half-golems at LA:-

[Kelb_Panthera]

IMHO anything that has a mind, int 3 or higher, and is not auto-dominated by its very nature ought to be a playable with a suitable LA. I do freely admit that "developing an eye" for the LA things should have is a bit of an art.

[AshDesert]

When I saw the name, I expected to see someone talking about how half-golem makes no sense fluff-wise. I personally still can't wrap my head around it.
Then again, I don't have MM2, so here's probably where someone explains the fluff and how it makes sense.

[Xenogears]

When I saw the name, I expected to see someone talking about how half-golem makes no sense fluff-wise. I personally still can't wrap my head around it.
Then again, I don't have MM2, so here's probably where someone explains the fluff and how it makes sense.

Well you see when a man loves a robot and he has a high level wizard friend they cobble together an unholy sin against nature....

[Sstoopidtallkid]

When I saw the name, I expected to see someone talking about how half-golem makes no sense fluff-wise. I personally still can't wrap my head around it.
Then again, I don't have MM2, so here's probably where someone explains the fluff and how it makes sense.

Someone tries to turn themselves into a Golem. They fail.

At least IIRC that's how it happens. Though I could make the fluff work in a more traditional direction.

[Magugag]

When I saw the name, I expected to see someone talking about how half-golem makes no sense fluff-wise. I personally still can't wrap my head around it.
Then again, I don't have MM2, so here's probably where someone explains the fluff and how it makes sense.

Well, to me, it makes perfect sense in a fantasy setting. Lose a limb, get a magical replacement limb that's tougher and stronger. It's not like someone went out and bumped uglies with a golem.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Someone tries to turn themselves into a Golem. They fail.

At least IIRC that's how it happens. Though I could make the fluff work in a more traditional direction.

Actually, if you make the Will save, you successfully replace the lost limb(s) and it's like a real-life prosthetic; if you fail the save, the golem limb's nature turns you into a construct.


Or, in other words, "In Soviet D&D, golem limb has you!"

[Kelb_Panthera]

The fluff in MM2 says that half-golems are supposed to be a kind of experimental method for restoring lost limbs cheaply, and without access to powerful divine magic. The cheapest version, half-flesh-golem costs less than an npc spell casting of the cleric version of regenerate and only requires that the caster be capable of 6th level spells. Whereas only clerics with the healing domain (a minority with so many domains available) and druids can cast it as a 7th level spell. Regular clerics get it as a 9th level spell. It has some........ side effects; that, as of yet, haven't been worked out.

[AshDesert]

Ah, well then, I was VERY confused about their use of Half-. Of course, every other Half- creature is when a humanoid (well, not always, see Dragons Will **** Anything) bumps uglies with the other creature, so you know, can't exactly blame me for being confused.

[herrhauptmann]

bumps uglies with the other creature, so you know, can't exactly blame me for being confused.

The proper term is 'smite evil' not 'bump uglies'