8th Level Battlefield Controller

[Rasman]

in my last session, I came within a hair of death, at which point I considered the fact that it would be wise to have a back-up plan, should he die and I need to reroll another character, i.e. Resurrection isn't really an option

problem being, other than role, I don't really know what I want to do with the next character...

We have a wizard in party that handles buffs and general "what Will save?" types of things, and I don't really want a caster type just yet anyway. We have a fighter that runs into things screaming "there's killing to be done!" and basically ruins the element of surprise. We have the ranger that just BLASTS things with arrows of BOOM and is our super tracker with a wolf for a pet and we've got a...Elf...that does...we're not really sure what the hell he is...Rogue/Cleric/Sorcerer...thing...with stupid high Cha that convinces things to not kill us. Without overstepping any of them, I'd like to find a character that can tear though enemy ranks like butter, giving the allies in the back a nice buffer and lack of a need to fear coming into melee, but can also stand toe to toe with a powerful general or creature.

I'm not really looking for a cheesey Chain Fighter type, although that is rediculously OP, but something that my GM won't go, "that's...that's just terribly wrong...A tarrasque falls on you...reroll...again..."

So any suggestions, I'd greatly appreciate, especially since this is just a backup character, although it could also be used in a different game I'm thinking of joining.

Pretty much all WotC books are allowed, no Homebrew and I can't really take things from the Dragon Mags.

If you have any questions, just ask, like if there's something I should have mentioned that I didn't or something.

Thnx in advance.

[Ernir]

Wanting BC and asking for neither casters nor chain-users pretty much kills the standard fare. =/

Would a Psychic Warrior using Expansion fit your bill? At level 8, you can get huge.
An AoO/Stormguard Warrior Warblade?

[Rasman]

Wanting BC and asking for neither casters nor chain-users pretty much kills the standard fare. =/

Would a Psychic Warrior using Expansion fit your bill? At level 8, you can get huge.
An AoO/Stormguard Warrior Warblade?

lol...yeah, but that's kinda the point really, unique is ALWAYS better than cookiecutter characters

we're also not exactly allowed Psions, or rather really limited with them, pretty much I'd have to take another class and then take feats to get Psionic powers, rather than be a pure Psion, sucks, but I would have already done it if I could have

I actually really like Tome of Battle AND Warblades, Swordsages and Crusaders are about as close as I'd get to having a Melee Magic User, but I don't have a lot of experience with them other than what I've read, so I've been hesitant about making one, otherwise I'd probably already have made an Unarmed Swordsage with the Monk Variant

sorry if I'm being kinda picky, I'm just looking for something...unusual...for lack of a better term

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Water Orc, Dragonborn of Bahamut (Heart aspect), Mineral Warrior, preferably having bought off the +1 LA so you'll be down by 3,000 XP with a +0 LA. That will get Str +6, Dex -2, Con +6, Int -4, Wis -4, Cha -4, 30 ft. land speed, 30 ft. swim speed, all the Dragonborn traits, and all the Mineral Warrior traits.

Go Crusader 20 with Entangling Exhalation and maybe Recover Breath and use your breath attack as often as possible to keep as many opponents entangled as you can. On the rounds in between breaths use maneuvers or just full attack, try to get a good mix of cure-type strikes, counters, and damage strikes. I'd go sword and board for the shield counters, take Shield Specialization and Shield Ward, Stone Power, and maybe even Combat Focus, Combat Stability, and Combat Vigor. You'll probably want to take two flaws just to get enough feats. This character is a tank first and foremost, who debuffs opponents with his breath attack to hopefully keep them from running past to get at the softer characters.

[Rasman]

Water Orc, Dragonborn of Bahamut (Heart aspect), Mineral Warrior, preferably having bought off the +1 LA so you'll be down by 3,000 XP with a +0 LA. That will get Str +6, Dex -2, Con +6, Int -4, Wis -4, Cha -4, 30 ft. land speed, 30 ft. swim speed, all the Dragonborn traits, and all the Mineral Warrior traits.

Go Crusader 20 with Entangling Exhalation and maybe Recover Breath and use your breath attack as often as possible to keep as many opponents entangled as you can. On the rounds in between breaths use maneuvers or just full attack, try to get a good mix of cure-type strikes, counters, and damage strikes. I'd go sword and board for the shield counters, take Shield Specialization and Shield Ward, Stone Power, and maybe even Combat Focus, Combat Stability, and Combat Vigor. You'll probably want to take two flaws just to get enough feats. This character is a tank first and foremost, who debuffs opponents with his breath attack to hopefully keep them from running past to get at the softer characters.

I hear a lot from munchkins about Water Orcs, but I'm not quite sure my GM would let me even have a regular Orc, so that part at least is out. I'd probably have to stick to the typical Human, Dwarf, Elf, Halfling, Gnome trope.

[Soranar]

Tripping Thrower (very different from a chain build)

race: strongheart halfling
alignment: any

STATS (32 pts buy)
STR 10 (can't be negative to qualify for vital aim)
DEX 20 (you might want this lower to pump CON)
CON14
INT 14 (I prefer a minimum of intelligence to play with, and some skills are useful, besides you get hide and move silently as a targetteer)
WIS 8 dump
CHA 8 dump

Targetteer lets you take 2 exotic ranged weapon proficiency

1rst should be Boomerang,talenta (1d4 piercing/bludgeoning weapon, 30ft, comes back when it misses with access to special feats to ricochet)
2nd I recommend the light repeating crossbow, comes in handy when you want to shoot from farther ( and you can always take the crossbow sniper feat to have reliable damage against crit immune creatures)

1 Targetteer vital aim, point blank shot, precise shot
2 Targetteer weapon focus Talenta Boomerang
3 Targetteer rapid shot
4 Targetteer boomerang ricochet
5 Targetteer
6 Master Thrower Trip Shot, Combat reflexes , bonus feat:Quick Draw
7 Master Thrower bonus feat: evasion
8 Targetteer ranged threat

so basically you only use your DEX for attack and damage (full bonus unless crit immune), you threaten everything within 30ft , you trip them using your DEX bonus +4 and you can do ricochets+rapid shots for crowd control

all you need is lots of boomerangs

btw Targetteer is a fighter variant, further levels in master thrower lets you get deadeye shot trick (increased multiplier on crits) and improved critical + another trick that lets you do a ranged touch attack to hit (for those really high ACs)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I hear a lot from munchkins about Water Orcs, but I'm not quite sure my GM would let me even have a regular Orc, so that part at least is out. I'd probably have to stick to the typical Human, Dwarf, Elf, Halfling, Gnome trope.

Water Halfling would also work fairly well. You mostly want to use a race of water for a dragonborn because you'll get to keep the swim speed, plus the Con bonus is nice for a tanky char and breath weapon DCs. I'd probably go with a Gnome or maybe a Wild Elf if you're stuck with the more standard races, but it should still work out just fine.

[Rasman]

Tripping Thrower (very different from a chain build)

race: strongheart halfling
alignment: any

STATS (32 pts buy)
STR 10 (can't be negative to qualify for vital aim)
DEX 20 (you might want this lower to pump CON)
CON14
INT 14 (I prefer a minimum of intelligence to play with, and some skills are useful, besides you get hide and move silently as a targetteer)
WIS 8 dump
CHA 8 dump

Targetteer lets you take 2 exotic ranged weapon proficiency

1rst should be Boomerang,talenta (1d4 piercing/bludgeoning weapon, 30ft, comes back when it misses with access to special feats to ricochet)
2nd I recommend the light repeating crossbow, comes in handy when you want to shoot from farther ( and you can always take the crossbow sniper feat to have reliable damage against crit immune creatures)

1 Targetteer vital aim, point blank shot, precise shot
2 Targetteer weapon focus Talenta Boomerang
3 Targetteer rapid shot
4 Targetteer boomerang ricochet
5 Targetteer
6 Master Thrower Trip Shot, Combat reflexes , bonus feat:Quick Draw
7 Master Thrower bonus feat: evasion
8 Targetteer ranged threat

so basically you only use your DEX for attack and damage (full bonus unless crit immune), you threaten everything within 30ft , you trip them using your DEX bonus +4 and you can do ricochets+rapid shots for crowd control

all you need is lots of boomerangs

or an awesome Boomerang of Returning, beats having LOTS of boomerangs...that's...actually kinda awesome...what exact books do I pull this out of...I know I've seen master thrower, but what is the Targetter from?

nvm...see your edit XD

Vorpal Boomerang of Returning...that is all XD

Could probably do this with Glots from Frostburn as well...that would be sick actually...

[Paul H]

Hi

I love playing spellcasters - pity they're not allowed. Beguiler seems perfect for the role. You've got spells to control battlefield, Haste, Unsettling Enchantment feat to drop opponents' AC & attacks for one round, etc.

And they're an Int based spellcaster/skill monkey with UMD.

Of coursde there's also the Warlock, who's not actually a spellcaster, but similar. Mix with Beguiler for Mystic Theurge if you like. (I did)! Only thing is you'd probably outshine the rogue for search, traps, skills, etc........ (And STILL have spells/SLA's).

Cheers
Paul H

[Glimbur]

Dragonfire Adept + Entangling Exhalation.

Other spices to add include Mongrelfolk or Warforged, Dragonborn (Heart lets you qualify for metabreath feats, wings gives you wings), and UMD.

As a bonus, you can have the largest ACP and smallest to-hit in the party and not care. Nonproficient tower shield and full plate use can be... amusing. Just get a swim speed and/or don't breathe.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

A Warlock can get Chilling Tentacles at 11... like Evard's Black Tentacles, only... moreso. At will. Come on, think of all the fun he'd have at Anime conventions...

To the previous Boomerang Chucker build, I propose Bloodstorm Blade be built in there somewhere to give you auto-returning weapons. Plus, thrown weapons count as melee attacks, so you could easily trip with them without needing special cheese.

I just had a mental image of someone throwing a Halaberd, spinning as it flies to the opponent, tripping him, then flying back to the wielder. Now that is ten kind of Badass.

[Rasman]

Hi

I love playing spellcasters - pity they're not allowed. Beguiler seems perfect for the role. You've got spells to control battlefield, Haste, Unsettling Enchantment feat to drop opponents' AC & attacks for one round, etc.

And they're an Int based spellcaster/skill monkey with UMD.

Of coursde there's also the Warlock, who's not actually a spellcaster, but similar. Mix with Beguiler for Mystic Theurge if you like. (I did)! Only thing is you'd probably outshine the rogue for search, traps, skills, etc........ (And STILL have spells/SLA's).

Cheers
Paul H

it's not really that they're not allowed, but i just want it to be simple and I've always been more of a "I'm in your face, beating your head against a rock" type + as I mentioned, my GM thinks if you're a caster that you have to blow **** up

although, if I were to make an exception, it would have to be an Illusionist/Conjurer that PrCed into Malconvoker

I've also been toying with the idea of a Shield Fighter with the Captain America feat to throw shields, talk about walking fortress...

[nightwyrm]

Dragonfire Adept + Entangling Exhalation.

This. Best crowd controller without going into spellcasting.

[Draz74]

Yeah, Dragonfire Adept is something you should at least look at, if the reason you didn't want a caster was the complicated bookkeeping rather than the flavor. Dragonfire Adept is an effective caster made simple. With a specialty in battlefield control.

But, I can't discourage you from Warblade either. Warblades are fantastic at "going through opponents like butter." If you want effective battlefield control, you have to tone back their offensive power a little to make sure you can get AoO feats, a reach weapon, and Thicket of Blades.

Give me more direction and I might even come up with a Warblade build for you. How much battlefield control? What race? How much are you opposed to the spiked chain and similar weapons? What level is the character?

[Kylarra]

I'll ++ the suggestion for DFA, they're one of my favorite classes.

[Rasman]

what book exactly is the Dragonfire Adept in?

[Kylarra]

what book exactly is the Dragonfire Adept in?

Dragon Magic

[Draz74]

what book exactly is the Dragonfire Adept in?

The Book of the Interwebz.

[Kylarra]

The Book of the Interwebz.

...

I totally didn't know that.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

This thread got me to look up Entangling Exhalation; if I'm reading it correctly, a first level DFA who takes this feat actually increases his breath weapon damage (from 1d6 to at least 1d6+(1d6/2)) on top of entangling folks. Am I reading it wrong?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

This thread got me to look up Entangling Exhalation; if I'm reading it correctly, a first level DFA who takes this feat actually increases his breath weapon damage (from 1d6 to at least 1d6+(1d6/2)) on top of entangling folks. Am I reading it wrong?

This is correct, you'll end up doing less damage immediately but the extra 1d6 on each of the following rounds more than makes up for it.

Note that a Dragonfire Adept who picks all day buffs for his invocations, particularly Endure Exposure to be used on his allies, will never have to worry about arcane spell failure for armor. He also never has to make an attack roll, so nonproficiency is also irrelevant. A Dragonfire Adept can go around in battle plate or mountain plate (RoS) with a tower shield and as long as he's strong enough to carry it and doesn't mind the reduced movement there are no downsides despite nonproficiency. Your only important stat is Constitution, for both HP and breath DCs, so it ends up being one of the toughest tanks in the game as well as one of the best battlefield controllers.

[Rasman]

This is correct, you'll end up doing less damage immediately but the extra 1d6 on each of the following rounds more than makes up for it.

Note that a Dragonfire Adept who picks all day buffs for his invocations, particularly Endure Exposure to be used on his allies, will never have to worry about arcane spell failure for armor. He also never has to make an attack roll, so nonproficiency is also irrelevant. A Dragonfire Adept can go around in battle plate or mountain plate (RoS) with a tower shield and as long as he's strong enough to carry it and doesn't mind the reduced movement there are no downsides despite nonproficiency. Your only important stat is Constitution, for both HP and breath DCs, so it ends up being one of the toughest tanks in the game as well as one of the best battlefield controllers.

so...basically...he turns into a walking tank that breathes fire but not really anything else?

[Kylarra]

so...basically...he turns into a walking tank that breathes fire but not really anything else?

It all depends on what you choose for your invocations. Note that "just breathing fire" is somewhat of a misnomer as you do get breath effects as you level up that vary up your breath attack.

[Rasman]

It all depends on what you choose for your invocations. Note that "just breathing fire" is somewhat of a misnomer as you do get breath effects as you level up that vary up your breath attack.

Yeah, I understand that he gets things like Acid Breath and he can control the shape of his breath and such, but, other than that, he kinda seems like a One Trick Pony. A badass One Trick Pony, but one none the less.

[Eldariel]

Yeah, I understand that he gets things like Acid Breath and he can control the shape of his breath and such, but, other than that, he kinda seems like a One Trick Pony. A badass One Trick Pony, but one none the less.

As much a one-trick pony as a Fighter. Well, even less since he at least can vary things on his Breath Weapon and has Invocations.

[Kylarra]

Yeah, I understand that he gets things like Acid Breath and he can control the shape of his breath and such, but, other than that, he kinda seems like a One Trick Pony. A badass One Trick Pony, but one none the less.

Well... compared to a fullcaster, sure.

At 8th level, you'll have a 4D6 breath weapon at will, with two different breath effects for more situational attacks. You'll also have 4 invocations to play with, 2 least, 2 lesser, including the very useful voracious dispelling and draconic flight.

So eh, if you think you're a one-trick pony, you're kind of shoehorning yourself into a niche without really looking at the options.

[Draz74]

My favorite (if rather simple) DFA build, at Level 20, can:

• Breathe clinging (entangling) fire
• Breathe (entangling) lightning
• Breathe (entangling) sonic
• Breathe (entangling) holy disintegration
• Breathe slow gas
• "Breathe" fear
• Radiate more fear
• Summon clouds of cold Solid Fog
• Make semi-decent melee attacks (though it's a waste of an action, except for Attacks of Opportunity)
• Take a hit: she has a lot of HP and good saves
• Buff her party: environmental endurance, +4 Spot/Listen/Initiative
• Fly
• Function underwater
• Know a whole lot of stuff, especially related to magic or identifying items
• Use great social skills
• UMD a library of useful wands

I don't think of her as a one-trick pony.

[Rasman]

Well... compared to a fullcaster, sure.

At 8th level, you'll have a 4D6 breath weapon at will, with two different breath effects for more situational attacks. You'll also have 4 invocations to play with, 2 least, 2 lesser, including the very useful voracious dispelling and draconic flight.

So eh, if you think you're a one-trick pony, you're kind of shoehorning yourself into a niche without really looking at the options.

I have a problem with Tunnelvisioning myself with classes, my Monk that I'm playing right now is probably a lot more useful than I think he is. I just don't really get what all the classes are capable of I suppose...tactics aren't exactly my party's strong suit, the only person that actually plans anything is the Wizard, but that's because he's 7 Fold Veil and Contingency is sort of their thing.

I should probably be looking to learn "how to fight effectively" rather than asking "help me build a cool class"

My favorite (if rather simple) DFA build, at Level 20, can:

• Breathe clinging (entangling) fire
• Breathe (entangling) lightning
• Breathe (entangling) sonic
• Breathe (entangling) holy disintegration
• Breathe slow gas
• "Breathe" fear
• Radiate more fear
• Summon clouds of cold Solid Fog
• Make semi-decent melee attacks (though it's a waste of an action, except for Attacks of Opportunity)
• Take a hit: she has a lot of HP and good saves
• Buff her party: environmental endurance, +4 Spot/Listen/Initiative
• Fly
• Function underwater
• Know a whole lot of stuff, especially related to magic or identifying items
• Use great social skills
• UMD a library of useful wands

I don't think of her as a one-trick pony.

well, I probably wasn't very clear as to what I meant, but in retrospect, specialization is almost always better than generalization...btw...where exactly is that Entangling Feat?

[Draz74]

btw...where exactly is that Entangling Feat?

Races of the Dragon.

[Charlie Kemek]

Races of the dragon, or the interwebz

Edit: stupid ninjas, at least I have the link....