General Anime Discussion: The 08th GAD Team

[Nerd-o-rama]

Just trying to clear something up, because I watched gundam wing ages ago, and everything else more recently...

Is it me or is Gundam Wing the only version of Gundam not to have mobile armour units?

Aside from the MA forms of the Wing Gundam, Epyon, and Taurus (and maybe some others), there's always this guy:



I'd call it a MA, anyhow.

[Prime32]

Did Aizen just get *********?

There's too many l33t h4cks illusionists in shonen manga right now. Maybe I should read decent manga instead

I have, in fact, made a mental note to never give illusion powers to any character in a story I write unless they're a complete wuss.

Aizen got hit because he was under the effects of at least two reality-warping powers at once, which were interacting strangely ("make everything follow the rules of childrens' games" + "make everything backwards" + possibly something shadow-related). I have no idea what that combination would do, and neither did Aizen.

[Mercenary Pen]

Oh. I google imaged 'mobile armor', and Gundams turning into planes came up . Oh well, I was close.

In that case, how about the giant Libra(?) cannon?

Libra's a battleship (after a fashion), which is not the same thing as a mobile armour...

Aside from the MA forms of the Wing Gundam, Epyon, and Taurus (and maybe some others), there's always this guy:

I'd call it a MA, anyhow.

Yes, I suppose Cancer counts as true mobile armour... Not so certain about the others, considering they fall into the TMS (or Transforming Mobile Suit) category (in particular, the Wing Gundam is just a re-imagined Zeta Gundam...)

But yeah, my query was whether I had missed something in my somewhat sketchy recollection of Gundam Wing.

[Lord of Rapture]

I declared it unreadable in its current state, and a veteran swooped down to assure me it gets better. The entire reason I brought it up was trolling seeing why people like it.

The problem is, based on first impressions, I have no reason to continue.

And my problem is that your first impressions are wrong.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Traditionally, the nonhumanoid forms of transforming mobile suits are referred to as mobile armors. That's why you see things referenced as things like "Taurus (MA Mode)" in image galleries and games.

There aren't a lot of "pure" MAs in Wing though, no. 00 is similarly lacking, also having a couple of aquatic MAs that show up once each, as far as I remember. There's also plenty of strap-on MA-like accessories and more than enough transforming MSes as well.

[Starfols]

this guy:

Wow, that takes me back. I think I had a model of him.

Yes, I suppose Cancer counts as true mobile armour... Not so certain about the others, considering they fall into the TMS (or Transforming Mobile Suit) category (in particular, the Wing Gundam is just a re-imagined Zeta Gundam...)

Your recent exploits, combined with the nostalgia trip of seeing a Cancer unit again, makes me think I ought to watch a Gundam show one of these days. Could you recommend one to start? I've seen Wing, G, and the original one.

And my problem is that your first impressions are wrong.

We both agreed that the beginning was bad, I accepted that the later bits were different than the beginning, and thus I have no opinion on it.

Won't you agree that my claims could be validated, if based solely on what I have seen ?

[13_CBS]

We both agreed that the beginning was bad, I accepted that the later bits were different than the beginning, and thus I have no opinion on it.

I seem to have lost the thread of the conversation a bit, so just so that I'm aware of what's going on...where did you start reading Berserk?

[Starfols]

I seem to have lost the thread of the conversation a bit, so just so that I'm aware of what's going on...where did you start reading Berserk?

Well, I started reading it when I read the first couple chapters of a friends copy, then online.

I read it maybe a month ago.

We started talking about it around page 8 .

[13_CBS]

Hmm...maybe you'll enjoy it if you started in the so called 2nd half of the manga?

Without spoiling too much, the manga in its current state can be divided into 2 broad arcs. I actually started reading Berserk from the prelude to the 2nd arc (the scene is...pretty infamous), and it worked very well for me, despite starting in the middle of the series.

You can start from the end of volume 12, which is where the manga makes the transition from the 1st arc to the 2nd.

[Zeful]

I have, in fact, made a mental note to never give illusion powers to any character in a story I write unless they're a complete wuss.

Aizen got hit because he was under the effects of at least two reality-warping powers at once, which were interacting strangely ("make everything follow the rules of childrens' games" + "make everything backwards" + possibly something shadow-related). I have no idea what that combination would do, and neither did Aizen.

The shadow thing was part of the Calvinball sword, which does not warp reality, if it's wielder steps on your shadow you get hit.

Aizen's butt-kicking, however temporary it was, was the combination of the four of the captain's working together.

[hanzo66]

Also in Let's Play news...


Seems that Schildkrote is doing a Persona 4 LP in the style of his Persona 3 one...

[LurkerInPlayground]

I can explain the Nietzsche bit better: Guts is an example of an ideal master ethical perspective. Sorry, but that sounds weird to type, and people understand Übermensch easier.

Except most people think of the Overman as the master race.

And I never took Guts as a master of ethical perspective so much as he's just really bitter that the weak always seem to perish.

Frankly, a person who actually ponders different ethical perspectives seems more like a compliment than an insult. I don't know. Maybe you hate "moral relativists" or something.

The prelude feels like Berserk is shooting for a grimdark version of swords-and-sorcery. You could replace Guts with Conan and you'd get the idea.

It gets to the point where the throwaway characters of the prelude don't even really feel like they're part of the same franchise. You'll notice the same archetypes repeated later to better and more memorable effect. (Girl in birdcage. Power-mad warlord.)

It's really best described as a "pilot episode."

[Starfols]

Hmm...maybe you'll enjoy it if you started in the so called 2nd half of the manga?

Without spoiling too much, the manga in its current state can be divided into 2 broad arcs. I actually started reading Berserk from the prelude to the 2nd arc (the scene is...pretty infamous), and it worked very well for me, despite starting in the middle of the series.

You can start from the end of volume 12, which is where the manga makes the transition from the 1st arc to the 2nd.

I'll give that a try. Thanks.

Except most people think of the Overman as the master race.

It gets the general idea across, I think. Then again, most people don't know who Nietzsche is, much less spell his name .

And I never took Guts as a master of ethical perspective so much as he's just really bitter that the weak always seem to perish.

Frankly, a person who actually ponders different ethical perspectives seems more like a compliment than an insult. I don't know.

Er, I was talking about this. The lack of 'of' in that sentence wasn't a typo .

As for Guts, it doesn't seem like there's much choice or thought involved, he just feels what he feels.

Maybe you hate "moral relativists" or something.

Not really. That would be...ironic.

The prelude feels like Berserk is shooting for a grimdark version of swords-and-sorcery. You could replace Guts with Conan and you'd get the idea.

It gets to the point where the throwaway characters of the prelude don't even really feel like they're part of the same franchise. You'll notice the same archetypes repeated later to better and more memorable effect. (Girl in birdcage. Power-mad warlord.)

I could see what it was going for, but I still didn't like it. I'm glad that it gets better.

It's really best described as a "pilot episode."

I would say it's closer to 'working out the kinks' .

[LurkerInPlayground]

I would say it's closer to 'working out the kinks' .

Well, I know Venture Brother's pilot was that way. And let me tell you, that pilot doesn't really quite have the tone of the comedy down just right. As a result, it's not really well-known.

My impression is that pilots are basically "working models" that vary in their success.

[Mercenary Pen]

Your recent exploits, combined with the nostalgia trip of seeing a Cancer unit again, makes me think I ought to watch a Gundam show one of these days. Could you recommend one to start? I've seen Wing, G, and the original one.

I'm going to suggest- first of all- going back and re-watching the original Mobile Suit Gundam. If your time is at more of a premium than mine, however, I'll suggest 08th MS Team. Basically, the one year war of Universal Century is a real classic and there are now a few more arcs within it (beyond the original MS Gundam)... See the war from all sides if you dare.

[Oslecamo]

I have, in fact, made a mental note to never give illusion powers to any character in a story I write unless they're a complete wuss.

Meh, you just would need to make sure there's an easy way to get true vision, and then kick the illusion dudes in the balls. In Gantz all members have stealth suits, but since the aliens have super senses, it really doesn't help them that much other than not being seen by civilians. Unless when fighting against vampires. But most vampires are wusses nowadays.

Aizen got hit because he was under the effects of at least two reality-warping powers at once, which were interacting strangely ("make everything follow the rules of childrens' games" + "make everything backwards" + possibly something shadow-related). I have no idea what that combination would do, and neither did Aizen.

The last two are the same. One of the children's game is something shadow-related, it had already been explained and used.

The combination isn't that unpredictable. The trick here is that the backward power only is usefull does if your oponent doesn't know you're using it. Aizen got distracted by the death blow+ice+shaddow trick, and then the backward power is activated, allowing for a true backstab.

Wich shows the characters are kinda geting smarter. Using your super powers whitout yelling your strategy and weak points at the oponent.

Not that it matters. This is just a flesh wound to Aizen.

Well, at least now we get to see awakened Aizen!

[Lord of Rapture]

Well, I know Venture Brother's pilot was that way. And let me tell you, that pilot doesn't really quite have the tone of the comedy down just right. As a result, it's not really well-known.

My impression is that pilots are basically "working models" that vary in their success.

Speaking of which, what kind of show is Venture Brothers anyway?

EDIT: @Starfols: What I said was that your first impressions, as Lurker has established, isn't really good grounds for judging the rest of the manga, which you haven't read.

I guess because I kinda skipped over the intro to the middle of the Golden Age arc, I didn't really have any cause to dislike it.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Also in Let's Play news...


Seems that Schildkrote is doing a Persona 4 LP in the style of his Persona 3 one...

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF*** YES! I've been waiting for that to happen.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Speaking of which, what kind of show is Venture Brothers anyway?

EDIT: @Starfols: What I said was that your first impressions, as Lurker has established, isn't really good grounds for judging the rest of the manga, which you haven't read.

I guess because I kinda skipped over the intro to the middle of the Golden Age arc, I didn't really have any cause to dislike it.

It's a show that parodies Johnny Quest and Doc Savage amongst other things.

Particularly, it parodies the adolescent fantasies of the jet age scientific romance. So you get a lot of "super scientists" and costumed villains. And the occasional-lizard man mook.

The humor also tends to be character-driven. The end result is that you end up liking a lot of the characters for their quirks even as you laugh at them.

[kamikasei]

Latest Negima: D: D: D: !!!

[Terraoblivion]

Yes, Kami.

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Poor Emily, just as her and Yue finally get to show their feelings for each other. And poor Tosaka, you grumpy, male tsundere dying in an effort to protect the girl you love. Poor Aisha, Mama and those two guys Makie and Yuuna had met getting caught up in things way beyond your scope. And poor everyone left behind. Whatever they have coming, Cosmo Entelecheia deserves it.

Also the artificial nature of the magic world seems pretty solidly established now. Though that doesn't really mean much other than that they are dispellable by those keyblade things.

[Cubey]

On Negima:

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I am not that distressed. Craig biting the dust all by himself I could believe, but the more well developed and sympathetic characters die, the less likely I find that Akamatsu will make it all stick. Unless he's going through some kind of Tomino-like crisis, I doubt he suddenly decided to go reap the cast left and right.

Especially if you remember that the author is a master of manipulating your emotions. He made the readers go "OMG" and "I am shock!" on more than one occassion already - and all of it was in the long term far less serious than it looked like for the time being. Of course, none of previous cases involved death, or to be precise, people disappearing/disintegrating.

Regardless, my present stance is that I am not thinking if, but how will the current status be reversed.

[Terraoblivion]

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Given how three of these characters are set up as love interests for some of the girls, it would be really weird if they were killed off permanently. But they were still killed off with the effects on the characters at hand that has.

Also i like playing along with things like this, makes for a greater degree of immersion in the story and ultimately for a more interesting experience.

[kamikasei]

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But they were still killed off with the effects on the characters at hand that has.

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People die when they are killed?

Actually, it's Emily that really surprised me. I wouldn't have said she was set up as a love interest, she was just a rival with a bit of yuri seasoning, but her exit was surprisingly touching.

[Terraoblivion]

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She wasn't set up as that until her exit scene. The lines fell into a classic pattern from various yuri anime and manga. Also Yue did the same blush that Ako and Nodoka had towards Tosaka and Craig, respectively. It rather surprised me as well, but it makes sense, given how Akamatsu is currently finding someone who isn't Negi for all the girls in preparation for settling who Negi ends up with.

[kamikasei]

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She wasn't set up as that until her exit scene. The lines fell into a classic pattern from various yuri anime and manga. Also Yue did the same blush that Ako and Nodoka had towards Tosaka and Craig, respectively. It rather surprised me as well, but it makes sense, given how Akamatsu is currently finding someone who isn't Negi for all the girls in preparation for settling who Negi ends up with.

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Oh, I agree that in that scene she was clearly established as interested in Yue (now, I don't think there's much evidence that Yue reciprocates). I just meant I didn't think she'd been established as such before that, and so the entire scene was surprising in how it played out (and remarkably effective given that relative to the others it came out of nowhere).

[Cubey]

Also i like playing along with things like this, makes for a greater degree of immersion in the story and ultimately for a more interesting experience.

Well, kinda hard to stay immersed all the time when there's only a chapter released every 1-2 weeks, and you have other stuff to do in the meantime.

Anyway, I appreciate the emotional rollercoaster Ken Akamatsu likes to put us through, but I also like to look at things with an analytical eye.

[Zeful]

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Oh, I agree that in that scene she was clearly established as interested in Yue (now, I don't think there's much evidence that Yue reciprocates). I just meant I didn't think she'd been established as such before that, and so the entire scene was surprising in how it played out (and remarkably effective given that relative to the others it came out of nowhere).

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While it is done in the shojo style (flower petals and stuff), I don't think that their supposed to represent romantic interests. Emily was Yue's Fire Forged Friend, Tosaka protected Ako, Natsume and Akira(?) when they needed it (as did Mama). While Craig did seem interested in Nodoka, much of the dialouge and body language indicated that he was more of a big brother than a potential lover.

Yue held Emily's head because at that point that was all that remained of her upper body.

[Mercenary Pen]

Well, I've now finished Gundam 00, so that's me finished with episodes of Gundam until Gundam Unicorn becomes available...

[Oslecamo]

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While it is done in the shojo style (flower petals and stuff), I don't think that their supposed to represent romantic interests. Emily was Yue's Fire Forged Friend, Tosaka protected Ako, Natsume and Akira(?) when they needed it (as did Mama). While Craig did seem interested in Nodoka, much of the dialouge and body language indicated that he was more of a big brother than a potential lover.

Yue held Emily's head because at that point that was all that remained of her upper body.

That, or

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CLAMP stormed the place where they were drawing the mangas and gave this chapter a personal touch. Seriously, lots of tragic deaths, sacrifice and yuri innuendo with more flowers that you can shake a fist at. The only thing lacking is some yaoi innuendo.

Personaly, I just say good riddance. Those dudes are all better off dead:
-The huge furry Slave Master that always gave me the creeps anyway.
-The most useless mooks in fiction, whose magic lances are weaker than handguns.
-The wannabe gladiator that seems unable to do anything other than cheap talk.
-The other magical school girl. Because altough everybody likes magic schoolgirls, when they start outnumbering the mundane girls, then it's going overboard.

Of course, it's all an illusion, or they find out some cheap way to bring them all back, because Negima's way too optimistic of a manga.

It will, of course, involve Negi/Rakan punching the hell out of reality untill it's the way they want it to be.

If they are actualy dead and buried/dispeled, then my hope for the manga will be revived.