Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 52
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Goonthegoof's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Lara, Australia

    Default Building a super grappler

    I'm trying to create a character that kills by grappling in a level 15 gestalt game. She's a vampire, improving grappling damage is pointless because she'll be killing via blood drain. So basically what I'm looking for is anything and everything that increases her ability to grapple. So far searching around I've found reaping mauler, Goliath, belt of growth, armbands of might and grips of the titan. Any other ideas?
    Currently moving houses, posting will be sporadic for the next little while.

  2. - Top - End - #2

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Any way to counter Freedom of Movement?

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Sstoopidtallkid's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Texas...for now
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Quote Originally Posted by Goonthegoof View Post
    I'm trying to create a character that kills by grappling in a level 15 gestalt game. She's a vampire, improving grappling damage is pointless because she'll be killing via blood drain. So basically what I'm looking for is anything and everything that increases her ability to grapple. So far searching around I've found reaping mauler, Goliath, belt of growth, armbands of might and grips of the titan. Any other ideas?
    Use almost none of those. The best grapplers are druids, Clerics, and PsyWars. Druid and PsyWar are my preference, since they rely less on stinky stinky cheese to get powerful buffs up for each combat. Non-caster grapplers are basically screwed against monsters since monsters have high HD(for BAB), large size(for bonuses), and massive Str. And keep in mind that by this point, the majority of stuff that doesn't have the numbers to try to grapple with you has either Dimension Door or Freedom of Movement. Grappling becomes very difficult after about level 8.
    [/sarcasm]
    FAQ is not RAW!
    Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
    Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
    I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Goliath, for Powerful Build
    Goliath Spirit Bear Totem Barbarian, for Improved Grab
    Warblade (or any ToB class), for Constrict (via Crushing Weight of the Mountain)

    Improved Grab also lets you qualify for a few feats from Serpent Kingdoms.
    If you want to go with Sstoopidtallkid's suggestion, you can take the Powerful Wild Shape feat, too.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Goonthegoof's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Lara, Australia

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    I'm almost certainly going to be grappling medium sized enemies, not a lot of spellcasters around.
    Currently moving houses, posting will be sporadic for the next little while.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Goonthegoof's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Lara, Australia

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Doesn't construct not give you anything but damage?
    Currently moving houses, posting will be sporadic for the next little while.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Sstoopidtallkid's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Texas...for now
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Quote Originally Posted by Goonthegoof View Post
    I'm almost certainly going to be grappling medium sized enemies, not a lot of spellcasters around.
    Non-spellcasting medium-sized enemies just makes the Vampire Dire Bear better. Though be prepared for every enemy to have maxed escape artist after about the second session.
    [/sarcasm]
    FAQ is not RAW!
    Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
    Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
    I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Heliomance's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    If this is for the gestalt arena, then there's no spellcasters at all. Also, the insane template stacking that frequently happens in optimised gestalt likely means that a good chunk of the opposition is going to be immune to your draining. This is the grapple monster i built for said arena, I took the slightly different path of just becoming as ungodly strong as i could and crushing them, but you might pick up some useful stuff.
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

    Avatar by Rain Dragon

    Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Take the Wild Cohort feat and endear yourself to a Dire Weasel. Now you have a grappling buddy that does the same CON damage you do, so you'll chip away twice as fast.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2009

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Totemist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PirateGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2009

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Half-Minotaur.

    +1LA for Large size and some physical boost.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Troll in the Playground
     
    herrhauptmann's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Choker monk, with the Souldrinker PrC from BoVD (not the vampire lifedrinker PrC).
    Every hit gains the enemy negative levels. Every negative level gives you boosts.
    Chokers have reach, and though they're small sized, they get a +4 racial to grappling to offset size, so they're strictly better than a human of equal stats on account of reach alone.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Quote Originally Posted by herrhauptmann View Post
    Choker monk, with the Souldrinker PrC from BoVD (not the vampire lifedrinker PrC).
    Every hit gains the enemy negative levels. Every negative level gives you boosts.
    Chokers have reach, and though they're small sized, they get a +4 racial to grappling to offset size, so they're strictly better than a human of equal stats on account of reach alone.
    The Soul Eater, from the way I read it, takes up to two negative levels with a touch attack (made as a standard action because it isn't specified). A vampire already drains 2 levels with its slam attack.
    The easiest way to increase negative levels is with a Savage Vampire (Libris Mortis) that has claws instead of a slam attack. Each of a Savage Vampire's claws bestows one negative level, so a simple Totemist dip for Girallon Arms would make that 4 negative levels per full attack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Goonthegoof's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Lara, Australia

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    I love you guys
    Currently moving houses, posting will be sporadic for the next little while.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2008

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Quote Originally Posted by HCL View Post
    Totemist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Seconding the totemist. A level 20 Totemist, if properly built, has a grapple check that's on par with the Tarrasque.

  16. - Top - End - #16

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Quote Originally Posted by HCL View Post
    Totemist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Yeah. Whoever says Druids are the best at grappling have never read the Totemist class. All you need to do to keep competent is find a way to mess with your enemy's size category or your own and you're set for life.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Talbot's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Since it's gestalt, it might be worth burning three levels in Factotum so you can add your Int to grappling.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Demons_eye's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Mi Lower P
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    In with those that say totemist also this might help


    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    Improved Unarmed Strike -> Improved Grapple -> Scorpion's Grasp

    * Pro: Locks down a single enemy, drastically limiting their options. Allows you to deal damage with opposed checks instead of attack rolls. Can deal massive damage if you have your entire build geared toward this.
    * Con: Size matters, so big/strong enemies will have an advantage. You lose your Dex bonus against other attackers. Ineffective against more then one enemy at a time.
    * Level of Effort: 3 feats + Monk/Fist of the Forest/Psychic Warrior or something similar if you also want to deal high damage.
    * Best used against: A single powerful enemy.
    * Commentary: This is another high investment/high return combo. But be careful - it works great against one enemy, but is really lousy against multiple enemies.
    ~Sweet avatar by Miss Nobody~

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike
    You killed it, its dead, it exploded, Good Job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Logalmier View Post
    "I need a latter! Quick, find a psion so he can make one with his mind!"

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Quote Originally Posted by herrhauptmann View Post
    Choker monk, with the Souldrinker PrC from BoVD (not the vampire lifedrinker PrC).
    Every hit gains the enemy negative levels. Every negative level gives you boosts.
    Chokers have reach, and though they're small sized, they get a +4 racial to grappling to offset size, so they're strictly better than a human of equal stats on account of reach alone.
    Chokers also shut down V-only spellcasting in a grapple, so no Dim Door escapes. However, they don't have an LA listed, so I would think most DMs wouldn't allow them as PCs.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Person_Man's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    May I suggest Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 13//Totemist 15

    Monk provides an unarmed damage bonus and Evasion, plus good Skills. With the Tashalatora feats, your Psychic Warrior levels will stack with Monk for unarmed Damage progression. Also, Monk unarmed strikes count as natural weapons, which is important for various Totemist combos. Here's a list of ways to improve your unarmed damage.

    Psychic Warrior provides bonus feats, Claws of the Beast, Claws of the Vampire, Expansion, Hustle, etc.

    Totemist provides you access to a metric ton of natural attacks and ways to boost them. The most important:
    • Girillion Arms, which grants you a 2 + (2 * essentia) Competence bonus to all Grapple and Climb checks.
    • Heart of Fire, as it adds 1d4 + (1d4* essentia to all natural attacks) - this includes your unarmed damage.
    • Mauling Gauntlets: This is a Soulborn soulmeld, so you need to take a feat to get it. But it provides a 2 + (2 * essntia) bonus to all Str checks (includes Grapple, Trip, etc).
    • Chaos Roc's Span (Dragon mag 350 pg 87): Binding this to your shoulder chakra provides you with 2 wing buffet attacks. In addition to providing you with 2 extra natural attacks, the wings are reach weapons. This is very important for battlefield control. Also, if you hit an enemy with both wings in one round, they must Save or be Dazed for 1d4 rounds (sadly it's a mind affecting effect, but Daze is still pretty potent). So be sure to always use them for AoO.
    • Dragon Tail (Dragon Magic and online): Bound to your waist it provides you with a tail attack with reach. Only use this if your DM doesn't allow Chaos Roc's Span (presumably because it's magazine material).

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    sonofzeal's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    May I suggest Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 13//Totemist 15

    Monk provides an unarmed damage bonus and Evasion, plus good Skills. With the Tashalatora feats, your Psychic Warrior levels will stack with Monk for unarmed Damage progression. Also, Monk unarmed strikes count as natural weapons, which is important for various Totemist combos. Here's a list of ways to improve your unarmed damage.

    Psychic Warrior provides bonus feats, Claws of the Beast, Claws of the Vampire, Expansion, Hustle, etc.

    Totemist provides you access to a metric ton of natural attacks and ways to boost them. The most important:
    • Girillion Arms, which grants you a 2 + (2 * essentia) Competence bonus to all Grapple and Climb checks.
    • Heart of Fire, as it adds 1d4 + (1d4* essentia to all natural attacks) - this includes your unarmed damage.
    • Mauling Gauntlets: This is a Soulborn soulmeld, so you need to take a feat to get it. But it provides a 2 + (2 * essntia) bonus to all Str checks (includes Grapple, Trip, etc).
    • Chaos Roc's Span (Dragon mag 350 pg 87): Binding this to your shoulder chakra provides you with 2 wing buffet attacks. In addition to providing you with 2 extra natural attacks, the wings are reach weapons. This is very important for battlefield control. Also, if you hit an enemy with both wings in one round, they must Save or be Dazed for 1d4 rounds (sadly it's a mind affecting effect, but Daze is still pretty potent). So be sure to always use them for AoO.
    • Dragon Tail (Dragon Magic and online): Bound to your waist it provides you with a tail attack with reach. Only use this if your DM doesn't allow Chaos Roc's Span (presumably because it's magazine material).
    I think it's a fair call between Monk2/Psychic Warrior13//Totemist15, and Monk1/Druid14//Totemist15. I'd lean in favour of the latter, as PsiWar can have endurance issues in my experience, though I haven't tried one past level 10 yet. Either way can be nasty, but I think the Druid wins on sheer flexibility. Whatever you're doing, there's probably a Druid spell that can at least help.

    And both can profit from Vow of Poverty, since Monk limits your gear options and Totemist limits them even farther if you bind anything to anything besides Totem Chakra, which should be a given at this level.
    Avatar by Crimmy

    Zeal's Tier System for PrC's
    Zeal's Expanded Alignment System
    Zeal's "Creative" Build Requests
    Bubs the Commoner
    Zeal's "Minimum-Intervention" balance fix
    Feat Point System fix (in progress)

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by JadePhoenix View Post
    sonofzeal, you're like a megazord of awesome and win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    SonOfZeal, it is a great joy to see that your Kung-Fu remains undiminished in this, the twilight of an age. May the Great Wheel be kind to you, planeswalker.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2008

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    If you don't mind being evil you can spend 20k on a grappling arm graft (or two). they give a +4 untyped bonus to STR when using them and another +4 bonus to grapple checks using them. So thats a +8 bonus per arm for 20k per arm. You could also be good if you can become immune to ability damage or can heal 1d3 points of wis damage per day.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    sonofzeal's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenogears View Post
    If you don't mind being evil you can spend 20k on a grappling arm graft (or two). they give a +4 untyped bonus to STR when using them and another +4 bonus to grapple checks using them. So thats a +8 bonus per arm for 20k per arm. You could also be good if you can become immune to ability damage or can heal 1d3 points of wis damage per day.
    Er, a +4 bonus to STR gives a +2 bonus to Grapple, for a +6 total. Still good though.


    You also don't have to be evil for a few of the more useful Maug grafts, and there's a couple that are especially good for grapplers.
    Avatar by Crimmy

    Zeal's Tier System for PrC's
    Zeal's Expanded Alignment System
    Zeal's "Creative" Build Requests
    Bubs the Commoner
    Zeal's "Minimum-Intervention" balance fix
    Feat Point System fix (in progress)

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by JadePhoenix View Post
    sonofzeal, you're like a megazord of awesome and win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    SonOfZeal, it is a great joy to see that your Kung-Fu remains undiminished in this, the twilight of an age. May the Great Wheel be kind to you, planeswalker.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Troll in the Playground
     
    herrhauptmann's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    The Soul Eater, from the way I read it, takes up to two negative levels with a touch attack (made as a standard action because it isn't specified). A vampire already drains 2 levels with its slam attack.
    The easiest way to increase negative levels is with a Savage Vampire (Libris Mortis) that has claws instead of a slam attack. Each of a Savage Vampire's claws bestows one negative level, so a simple Totemist dip for Girallon Arms would make that 4 negative levels per full attack.
    I advocate the choker monk over a regular vampire, because (from what my DMs have told me) a vampire can't use his slam attack for flurry, stunning fist, etc. So he's limited to how many attacks he can make a round that drain a level.
    A choker monk with that prestige class meanwhile, can activate a flurry of blows, and get that level drain for each hit. So assuming I'm remembering that correctly, the choker would get more level draining attempts than a vampire.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2008

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofzeal View Post
    Er, a +4 bonus to STR gives a +2 bonus to Grapple, for a +6 total. Still good though.


    You also don't have to be evil for a few of the more useful Maug grafts, and there's a couple that are especially good for grapplers.
    yes yes that is right. bad math on my part...

    Yeah the Maug Locking Hand Graft gives a +5 bonus but only for stopping them from escaping (atleast insofar as grappling is concerned its the only time it works) for only 2k. I wonder if they could stack...

    Could you replace your arem with a grappling tentacle and then put a stone hand at the end of it for a +11 to grapple for 22k?
    Quote Originally Posted by herrhauptmann View Post
    I advocate the choker monk over a regular vampire, because (from what my DMs have told me) a vampire can't use his slam attack for flurry, stunning fist, etc. So he's limited to how many attacks he can make a round that drain a level.
    A choker monk with that prestige class meanwhile, can activate a flurry of blows, and get that level drain for each hit. So assuming I'm remembering that correctly, the choker would get more level draining attempts than a vampire.
    Actually a Vampire can only use his energy drain ability 1/round no matter how many attacks they have so its even worse than you thought.
    Edit:
    Last edited by Xenogears; 2010-01-18 at 05:28 PM.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Troll in the Playground
     
    herrhauptmann's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenogears View Post
    Actually a Vampire can only use his energy drain ability 1/round no matter how many attacks they have so its even worse than you thought.
    Really? Ouch. So yeah, definitely choker with the PrC over a regular vampire. I'll go look at the vampire variants later tonight, though depending on LA, that feral one mentioned might be superior to the choker.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Goonthegoof's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Lara, Australia

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenogears View Post
    yes yes that is right. bad math on my part...

    Yeah the Maug Locking Hand Graft gives a +5 bonus but only for stopping them from escaping (atleast insofar as grappling is concerned its the only time it works) for only 2k. I wonder if they could stack...

    Could you replace your arem with a grappling tentacle and then put a stone hand at the end of it for a +11 to grapple for 22k?


    Actually a Vampire can only use his energy drain ability 1/round no matter how many attacks they have so its even worse than you thought.
    Edit:
    Where would I find this stuff? Libris Mortis doesn't seem to mention those grafts.
    Currently moving houses, posting will be sporadic for the next little while.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    sonofzeal's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenogears View Post
    yes yes that is right. bad math on my part...

    Yeah the Maug Locking Hand Graft gives a +5 bonus but only for stopping them from escaping (atleast insofar as grappling is concerned its the only time it works) for only 2k. I wonder if they could stack...

    Could you replace your arem with a grappling tentacle and then put a stone hand at the end of it for a +11 to grapple for 22k?
    Mmmm.... yeah, should be kosher. There's no special penalty applied to the creature that tentacles negate, and the mental image is kind of awesome. And the text allows multiple locking hands to stack with themselves, so that's cool too. However, there's one problematic word: "it replaces the creature's normal hand". You could argue the tentacle constitutes a "hand" of sorts, but it's certainly not your "normal" hand. I'd allow it though.



    EDIT - for those curious, this is from Fiend Folio.
    Last edited by sonofzeal; 2010-01-18 at 10:14 PM.
    Avatar by Crimmy

    Zeal's Tier System for PrC's
    Zeal's Expanded Alignment System
    Zeal's "Creative" Build Requests
    Bubs the Commoner
    Zeal's "Minimum-Intervention" balance fix
    Feat Point System fix (in progress)

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by JadePhoenix View Post
    sonofzeal, you're like a megazord of awesome and win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    SonOfZeal, it is a great joy to see that your Kung-Fu remains undiminished in this, the twilight of an age. May the Great Wheel be kind to you, planeswalker.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Goonthegoof's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Lara, Australia

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    I just found them, is it possible to get them without paying an xp cost?
    Currently moving houses, posting will be sporadic for the next little while.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    sonofzeal's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Building a super grappler

    Quote Originally Posted by Goonthegoof View Post
    I just found them, is it possible to get them without paying an xp cost?
    Er.... pay the market price listed?
    Avatar by Crimmy

    Zeal's Tier System for PrC's
    Zeal's Expanded Alignment System
    Zeal's "Creative" Build Requests
    Bubs the Commoner
    Zeal's "Minimum-Intervention" balance fix
    Feat Point System fix (in progress)

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by JadePhoenix View Post
    sonofzeal, you're like a megazord of awesome and win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    SonOfZeal, it is a great joy to see that your Kung-Fu remains undiminished in this, the twilight of an age. May the Great Wheel be kind to you, planeswalker.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •