[3.5] Gnoll Warrior Build Help

[Drakevarg]

I'm currently in a campaign taking place in the absurdly far north (as in, far enough that I could point to you on the map the farthest north you could get before your guarenteed icey demise) wherin my character is a Chaotic Neutral Gnoll. I intend to give him a pure melee build, with emphasis on his incredibly high Strength and Constitution. (21 and 20 respectively, and still no class levels. In our only session so far he managed to fall off a cliff, catch himself mid-fall, then climb back up by punching handholds into the cliff wall. And then remained concious after being hit by the avalanche all the commotion caused long enough to dig to the surface. I used to think his violent tendancies would give him a shorter lifespan than the rest of the party, but now I think he might outlast them all through sheer tenacity.)

I intend to have him wield an oversized Battleaxe (because it deals 2d6 as opposed to the Greataxe's 1d12, something I never understood) and an oversized Warhammer as two handed weapons. (I have both because the character has mild paranoia in relation to the undead, which makes him habitually burn or otherwise destroy any corpses he comes across and carry a blunt and a slashing weapon to overcome either Damage Reduction.)

The character is a relatively young Gnoll, (Level 2 out of 3, since I'm making use of a Homebrewed leveled race which allows me to treat his race like a class.) so he doesn't have any class levels yet. Indeed he's still taking penalties to his hammer and axe due to no martial weapon proficiency.

The question I pose to you is: what class/feat progression should he have, keeping in mind a desire to deal and take tons of damage and survive in an absurdly arctic environment?

My resources include Core, Libris Mortis, Draconomicon, Silence and Song and Masters of the Wild (or whatever the Barbarian/Ranger/Druid source book is called; my DM owns it, not me.) The DM has also considered allowing my Homebrewed Blood Knight Prestige Class, which you can find in my sig.

Lemme know if you need more info and give yer thoughts.

[Runestar]

Gnolls are notoriously weak for their ECL (compare their stats to an orc or goliath - the benefits aren't really that great). The flind in MM3 is marginally better. See if you can ask to rebuild as one. Their stats are available for free, click the link below.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...040912b&page=3

You could consider picking up frostburn for tips on running an arctic-based campaign. I suppose you could go barb, followed by the frostrager prc?

[Shademan]

Tob+Barbarian?
or maybe a little bit of ranger? favored enemy undead, anyone?
Heck, a single level in cleric for turning could be fun.

then again, you might wanna keep it martial.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Flind has an extra point of level adjustment on the standard Gnoll. I'd say stick with what you've got, especially if you can buy off the level adjustment, which would cost 5000 XP at your 3rd class level (ECL 6). After that point you'd be gaining more XP per encounter due to your lower ECL, so there isn't any reason not to do it.

Wielding oversized weapons gives you a -2 penalty to hit, which is standard for any inappropriately sized weapon. An oversized battleaxe is 2d6 at -2 to hit, whereas a greataxe get 1d12+4 when power attacking for -2, definitely a much better choice.

If you have ToB, go Warblade and focus on Stone Dragon, Iron Heart, and Tiger Claw maneuvers and stances. Otherwise I'd say go Ranger 3/ Horizon Walker, using the Strong-Arm combat style (page 100) to get Power Attack at Ranger 2. For your Horizon Walker masteries I'd get Hills, Plains, Mountains, Underground, and Desert, then Shifting (if interpreted as being able to work on any plane), Cavernous, and Aligned. If the character/campaign lasts that long, maybe go Barbarian or more Ranger afterward.

[Drakevarg]

*sigh*

I'm going to play a Gnoll. That part isn't up for discussion. I LIKE Gnolls. Not to mention the campaign started already and I can't change races. The reason I'm open for class advise is because I haven't taken any class levels yet. (Due to the fact that Gnolls are ECL 3, while I am only ECL 2. So until I hit 4th level I can't take any class levels.)

And wielding oversized weapon only gives a penalty if you're using it the same way as a non-oversized version. For example, a Greatsword IS an oversized Longsword. As such, it's a two-handed weapon. The -2 comes in if you use the Greatsword as a Longsword (in one hand). I'll be using these oversized weapons as two-handed weapons, ergo no penalty.

And finally, I already stated in the first post what books I have available:

Players Handbook
Dungeon Masters Guide
Monster Manual
Libris Mortis
Draconomicon
Song and Silence
Masters of the Wild

Nothing else. And yes, I know that Frostburn would be handy, but my personal policy is that if I can't get a meatspace copy of it, I'm not going to use it. And unfortunately, it's been a bitch trying to find a copy since 4e came out.

[Draz74]

Players Handbook
Dungeon Masters Guide
Monster Manual
Libris Mortis
Draconomicon
Song and Silence
Masters of the Wild

Nothing else.

No free-online material? Because all you need for Tome of Battle (for this character) is on the Wizards website (the Warblade preview, and the Maneuver Cards).

[Drakevarg]

If I don't have it in meatspace, I don't like using it. Largely because I can't carry it around with me and familiarize myself with it. For the same reason I don't use homebrews I didn't make myself.

[Corbeau]

I concure with the above that you should pursue a career as a ranger. Since the only book available that has base classes, IIRC, is the PHB. Take undead as FE at 1st (4th) and go for the Power Attack ACF. After that, see where the campaign takes you.

[Kylarra]

If your DM agrees with your interpretation on oversized weapons, then it's all good of course, but by RAW your interpretation isn't correct. You have Large sized one-handed weapons, being wielded by a Medium sized creature.

A weapon’s size category isn’t the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon’s size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder.

Inappropriately Sized Weapons

A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a -4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

[AtwasAwamps]

Sticking with what you’ve said so far and since you can’t use Frostburn (totally understand your beliefs, even I don’t stick to ‘em ☺ ), there’s some interesting stuff out there even with what you’ve got.

Since you’re going to stick with a pure melee build most likely and you have a huge strength and constitution, a barbarian build really look absolutely perfect. Rather than shame myself by suggesting anything of my own, I will point to Eldariel’s handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105525) as a great lesson in optimizing a barbarian’s already significant power. You’ll have a huge rage duration with that much con and you’ll get quite a lot of the stronger class features of a Barbarian with 17 class levels.

[Drakevarg]

If your DM agrees with your interpretation on oversized weapons, then it's all good of course, but by RAW your interpretation isn't correct. You have Large sized one-handed weapons, being wielded by a Medium sized creature.

The fact that it is a Large sized one-handed weapon does not render it impossible to be wielded in two hands. Check the damage increase by size table. A 1d8 (longsword) becomes a 2d6 (greatsword). The DMG rules about oversized weapons also support this idea.

As for the rest, so take Ranger for favored enemy then barbarian? Makes sense. But of course we'll see how it goes.

Random Remark: the "wieghted sleeve" from Silence and Song is a hilarious weapon. A metal wieght sewn into the inside of a sleeve that deals the same damage as a mace. Our team's sorcerer has one. We call it her "Bitchslap of Doom."

I dunno. I just was thinking about that thing and I needed to mention it.

[AtwasAwamps]

Personally, I wouldn't even take ranger and just go straight barbarian. Favored enemy seems to imply your character has studied the creature and knows best how to combat you. A young, strong, impulsive gnoll might not take the time to do that. However, seeing a horde of zombies and flying into a blood frenzy to tear apart the things he hates the most...that he might do. Just my thoughts, I don't really know how you intend to play the PC.

[Kylarra]

The fact that it is a Large sized one-handed weapon does not render it impossible to be wielded in two hands.

Impossible no, unwieldy yes.

Check the damage increase by size table. A 1d8 (longsword) becomes a 2d6 (greatsword). The DMG rules about oversized weapons also support this idea.

I am aware of the table.
Mechanically, a Large longsword deals the same damage as a greatsword, but a Large longsword is a weapon sized for a large creature, whereas a greatsword is a weapon sized for a Medium sized creature.

It's not gamebreaking in the least to allow you to have these weapons, I just wanted to point out that strictly speaking, it doesn't work the way you say it works.

[doc225]

Unfortunately, the sizing rules do mean that you would be taking a -2. if your DM allows otherwise, go for it. the thing to remember is that a battleaxe sized for a larger creature wouldn't just be longer, it would also have a much thicker handle, almost to the point of making it unusable, hence the -2.

A greatsword insn't a large longsword, it's a medium greatsword. The pommel of a large longsword would be fat, and getting hands around it would be tough for a medium creature. That is where the -2 comes from.

If I were DM, and I know that I am not, I would say stick to the Greataxe, and use the maul as your large hammer. I can't remember what book the maul is in, however, maybe FRPG.

[Fhaolan]

Personally, I'd go for Barbarian or Ranger, heading for Horizon Walker. Mainly because I've done something similar before with a LA race in the wilds and it worked out well, theme-wise.

[Glimbur]

Have you considered taking some full BAB class, then a level of sorcerer, and then Dragon Disciple? The Str increases make up for the BAB cost, and with your limited book set there aren't many ways to improve Power Attack so losing BAB isn't such a big deal. Admittedly, the fluff would be... a little odd.

[Drakevarg]

... why would I want to be a sorcerer? Especially since our party has 2 of them as it is.

Also, the DMG has a Weapon Equivalencies Variant Rule on page 27, which assumes that the weapon is something you got off a slain monster or somesuch. I'm reasonably sure that you could hire a blacksmith to craft something of similar size but more manageable proportions. Oh, and my character is 7'10", which by my DM's rules is 2 inches short of Large size anyway.

The main thing is I bloody hate the whole d12 thing. It's inconsistant with every other weapon in the game and just pointless.

Anywho, Horizon Walker seems like an interesting choice, and this campaign seems like it's going to have a heavy survival theme as it is.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

... why would I want to be a sorcerer? Especially since our party has 2 of them as it is.

To enter Dragon Disciple, which was Glim-Glam's point. Moar strength is generally moar better, and you need at least 1st level spells to enter Dragon Disciple.

Also, if you have a laptop, I'd go ahead and go Warblade with the excerpts WotC has provided. The laptop is in meatspace, and considering the maneuver cards, it's easier to handle than the actual ToB.

[Drakevarg]

Don't think I'll doing that, but a friend of mine who's also in the party is going to let me borrow is Complete Warrior. Anything in there I should look out for?

And class aside, what sort of Feats should I be looking at?

[Kylarra]

I'm reasonably sure that you could hire a blacksmith to craft something of similar size but more manageable proportions. Oh, and my character is 7'10", which by my DM's rules is 2 inches short of Large size anyway.

Like I said earlier, if your DM is fine with it, more power to you and it won't break anything either way, but it's not RAW.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Don't think I'll doing that, but a friend of mine who's also in the party is going to let me borrow is Complete Warrior. Anything in there I should look out for?

And class aside, what sort of Feats should I be looking at?

Shock Trooper is made of glorious deathly win, as far as melee feats go. Grab that.

Bear Warrior and Frenzied Beserker are both good (FB, assuming you can pump your will save to +19. If you have PHB2, grab Steadfast Determination and giggle).

[Drakevarg]

For those who have Masters of the Wild, is the Bloodhound prestige class any good? I don't have that book (it's my DM's) so I can't remember what it does offhand. Something about tracking.

Right now, at least until I've seen Complete Warrior, I'm thinking Barbarian, then Horizon Walker.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

For those who have Masters of the Wild, is the Bloodhound prestige class any good? I don't have that book (it's my DM's) so I can't remember what it does offhand. Something about tracking.

Right now, at least until I've seen Complete Warrior, I'm thinking Barbarian, then Horizon Walker.

Bloodhound is mediocre, at best, having been reprinted in Complete Adventurer. Barbarian into Horizon Walker is also good, considering that it gives you dimension door 1d4 rounds.

[Drakevarg]

I was mostly going to take it for the fact that the second I hit Horizon Walker 6, I break the campaign. Resist Cold 20. Yoink!

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I was mostly going to take it for the fact that the second I hit Horizon Walker 6, I break the campaign. Resist Cold 20. Yoink!

That's not breaking anything. A low level caster can easily provide that in either spell or item form.

[Drakevarg]

*Adds that to the list of reasons I hate spellcasters.*

[Hyooz]

I was mostly going to take it for the fact that the second I hit Horizon Walker 6, I break the campaign. Resist Cold 20. Yoink!

I... uh... WHAT?!

That's a joke?

[Drakevarg]

Honestly... I don't know anymore. Ever sense I posted it, it's seemed more and more idiotic until now I have a headache just thinking about it.

*sigh*... Why does magic insist on taking out all the fun of survival?

[Hyooz]

Survival in an arctic environ does not require Cold Resist 20.

Protip: Never use a class feature to emulate what heavy sweaters can do.

[Drakevarg]

A heavy sweater is not going to protect you from temperatures cold enough to function as a permanent, AoE chill metal spell. And it gets about that cold about 50 miles from our current location.