Eberron and paladin questions (my players stay out)

[ShadowFighter15]

Are half-fiends plausible at all for the setting, even as a one-in-a-million chance of happening? And if so; would one becoming a paladin of the Silver Flame seem possible?

I'm eventually going to be running Voyage of the Golden Dragon for my players and I'm tempted to replace one of the Silver Flame paladins in part 2 with a rather larger-than-life half-fiend. Loud, boisterous, good-natured, somewhat oblivious at times (occasionally knocking people over with his wings, for instance) and sometimes Wrong Genre Savvy. Basically the sort of character who could plausibly be voiced by Brian Blessed.

Would it be plausible, or would a half-fiend paladin seem too out-there?

[Raging Gene Ray]

Would it be plausible, or would a half-fiend paladin seem too out-there?

The Silver Flame itself is Half-Fiend. It sounds fun to play...on those grounds alone it should be okay.

Are you making him Evil aligned but good natured, a well-meaning tool used by both factions of the Church? I wanna know more about this character!

[ShadowFighter15]

Genuinely good; but rather dense. Light-hearted, cheerful, very eager to do the Flame's will (though his companions might say over-eager) and prone to chewing the scenery.

In the module; the two paladins are guarding an ambassador from Thrane who's heading home from Breland aboard the Golden Dragon (largest airship ever built), but the two paladins are just side-characters (since an ambassador without bodyguards just screams "Assassinate me!") so I figured at the least, I'd spruce one of them up and make him a recurring character.

[Soranar]

well he's not a pure fiend, only half

so the other half could be so overwhelmingly Lawful Good as to make a paladin (although an alternate alignment paladin would probably make more sense)

say paladin of freedom (CG) or chaos (CN)

[ShadowFighter15]

Well doing that would kind of kill the feel I want for this guy; he's basically Elan as a paladin and with a more realistic (but still low) intelligence. You cast Detect Good and look at him and you'd need to see a cleric to restore your burnt-out retina, he's that good.

He's prone to needless melodramatics; he could start off in a normal conversation with someone on the Silver Flame, then start raising his voice til he's bellowing with righteous conviction, then drop back to a normal speaking voice to apologise to the guy he just accidentally clothes-lined. Part of his role in the story's going to be comic relief.

[kamikasei]

I'd be all for it. The fact that the Silver Flame is supposed to be a good organization with a dark underbelly gets lost when people focus on the corruption and Knight Templar tendencies as if they were the whole church. It'd be nice to see a representative who's a living embodiment of their better side (by representing both personal redemption and acceptance within the faith).

[Soranar]

even if he was pure fiend people would still argue that he's the exception that makes the rule, besides there's even a weird template for that (I forget where I read it) but basically if an undead (since outsiders can be turned you could say that's what happened) is turned successfully there is a chance that he becomes Lawful good instead of being destroyed

the creature is then doomed to redeem his actions (reminds of angel for some reason, the thing was even meant for vampires)

[Cyclocone]

Noone has mentioned that Succubus Paladin yet?

They claim they did it for the CHA synergy; but really, they just wanted a succubus with "special mount" in her entry...

[paddyfool]

Sounds like fun. What race were you going to have the other half be? Human?

[kamikasei]

Noone has mentioned that Succubus Paladin yet?

A half-fiend paladin would supposedly have alignment: Always Evil (any), but doesn't get any alignment subtypes, so it's not quite the mess that the succubus paladin ended up as. And of course, it's Eberron, so "always" in an alignment listing doesn't mean much.

Might want to rework the smite and spell-like abilities, though, or on the other hand might just leave them there and say he doesn't use them because he's good.

[Optimystik]

Eberron's whole schtick was separating alignment and creature type. Evil silver dragons, good vampires etc. So go nuts, OP.

[ShadowFighter15]

Sounds like fun. What race were you going to have the other half be? Human?

It'll just be human; Thrane's kind of human-centric (or at least that's the impression I get from Five Nations) so the demon-blood would've made things hard enough.

Though the idea of a half-fiend shifter sounds interesting. Might hang onto that for later use (or a high-level game where everyone else'll be using LA races).

Might want to rework the smite and spell-like abilities, though, or on the other hand might just leave them there and say he doesn't use them because he's good.

Actually I like the idea of him having those abilities that are listed in the template; possibly stuff for emergency-use or just that he never uses at all. Look at the shifter barbarian/warblade PC in AslanCross' RHoD campaign journal; she only ever rages or shifts when it's absolutely necessary. I figure this guy should still have the Smite Good and those SLAs, but just never use them unless he has no choice. Although that Darkness SLA might see a good bit of use; nothing evil about that.

Eberron's whole schtick was separating alignment and creature type. Evil silver dragons, good vampires etc. So go nuts, OP.

Well my main worry was the plausibility of a half-fiend even existing in a setting like Eberron (with the exception of that half-fiend black dragon, can't remember where he is).

[Optimystik]

Well my main worry was the plausibility of a half-fiend even existing in a setting like Eberron (with the exception of that half-fiend black dragon, can't remember where he is).

Why? There are fiends in eberron (ECS 100), and presumably they mate with things. (Or if you want a slightly different take, have the fiend possess someone and then mate - say, your paladin's pious mother?.)

[Amphetryon]

1) Eberron's motto is essentially 'if it exists in D&D, it has a place in Eberron.' That should be a clear go-signal for half-fiends.

2) You linked TVtropes. Dammit.

[Optimystik]

If anything, a half-fiend paladin would be MORE likely in Eberron than anywhere else (like FR.)

[deuxhero]

1) Eberron's motto is essentially 'if it exists in D&D, it has a place in Eberron.' That should be a clear go-signal for half-fiends.

That means I can take all those broken Mystra feats in Eberron? Cool!

[Amphetryon]

Please note the qualifier 'essentially'.

[Cyclocone]

A half-fiend paladin would supposedly have alignment: Always Evil (any), but doesn't get any alignment subtypes, so it's not quite the mess that the succubus paladin ended up as. And of course, it's Eberron, so "always" in an alignment listing doesn't mean much.

Yeah, the (Chaotic, Evil) Paladin was pure facepalm fuel.

Also, with Erandis D'Vols template-stacking in mind, I can't see why this wouldn't fly in Eberron.

[Bayar]

Please note the qualifier 'essentially'.

Aww, so no gunpowder and lightsabre's...

[Sinfire Titan]

Aww, so no gunpowder and lightsabre's...

A lot of people think that phrase means everything goes. Odds are, the Devs intended it to mean "anything printed in 3.5 is appropriate for this campaign setting".

[Optimystik]

Lightsabers are easy - There are warlocks in Eberron.

[ShadowFighter15]

Why? There are fiends in eberron (ECS 100), and presumably they mate with things. (Or if you want a slightly different take, have the fiend possess someone and then mate - say, your paladin's pious mother?.)

Well it was more about how likely a fiend could make their way into Eberron long enough to actually produce offspring. Although the possession idea sounds good. Also, since I've house-ruled that the Pathfinder version of the paladin is being used instead of the normal one (since it's easy enough to convert to 3.5) I was thinking of having his fiendish parent be one of the more charismatic fiends. Maybe a succubus who wanted to see what it's like from the guy's perspective?

2) You linked TVtropes. Dammit.

Yeah, sorry. Should've warned you about that before it ruined your life.

If anything, a half-fiend paladin would be MORE likely in Eberron than anywhere else (like FR.)

Unless its a game that makes good use out of UA's variant paladins or they make a half-fiend template for 4e.

Also, with Erandis D'Vols template-stacking in mind, I can't see why this wouldn't fly in Eberron.

Just what is the LA on a half-dragon lich? Would a character like that be even playable?

[Inyssius Tor]

Well it was more about how likely a fiend could make their way into Eberron long enough to actually produce offspring.

Yeah, you're perfectly fine. Fiends certainly show up in Eberron--the Demon Wastes aren't called that out of superstition, the bloody place is full of demons. Indeed, many fiends are native to Eberron, which ought to make their corporeal presence more common than usual (and that's in addition to, not instead of, the planar immigrants that everyone else can get). And then on top of that, there's no shortage of things that can make your kid a half-fiend without you needing to screw anything abyssal. Planar influence from Shavarath, or Fernia, or Risia, or Dolurrh, or Mabar (all home to demons, and potentially to demonic influence leaking through to Eberron); the shadow of Tiamat, or Lolth, or Bel Shalor, or any other Khyber-bound Power; or, hell, the influence of Khyber herself. Not to mention the usual curses and mad experiments and so on.

Unless its a game that makes good use out of UA's variant paladins or they make a half-fiend template for 4e.

Tieflings don't count? Not even tieflings with the racial feat that lets them turn into ravenous horned brutes, eyes coruscating with hellfire, for the duration of an encounter?

Aw.

Just what is the LA on a half-dragon lich? Would a character like that be even playable?

+7. Yeesh. With the phylactery restrictions, you'd have to start at level 18 (though Erandis cheated).

[Teron]

There was an Dragon article about the Lords of Dust that addressed this subject. While outsiders don't reproduce sexually, they can essentially conceive a half-fiend through magic. The main difference is that, since this is rare and deliberate, any such character likely exists as part of some rakshasa's schemes, whether he knows it or not (and it's almost always a rakshasa's doing, given that extraplanar outsiders rarely interact with Eberron by choice).

It's also established that normal creatures can be corrupted into half-fiends under certain circumstances, like the black dragon who spent too long near an imprisoned rakshasa rajah.

[ShadowFighter15]

Yeah, you're perfectly fine. Fiends certainly show up in Eberron--the Demon Wastes aren't called that out of superstition, the bloody place is full of demons. Indeed, many fiends are native to Eberron, which ought to make their corporeal presence more common than usual (and that's in addition to, not instead of, the planar immigrants that everyone else can get). And then on top of that, there's no shortage of things that can make your kid a half-fiend without you needing to screw anything abyssal. Planar influence from Shavarath, or Fernia, or Risia, or Dolurrh, or Mabar (all home to demons, and potentially to demonic influence leaking through to Eberron); the shadow of Tiamat, or Lolth, or Bel Shalor, or any other Khyber-bound Power; or, hell, the influence of Khyber herself. Not to mention the usual curses and mad experiments and so on.

There was an Dragon article about the Lords of Dust that addressed this subject. While outsiders don't reproduce sexually, they can essentially conceive a half-fiend through magic. The main difference is that, since this is rare and deliberate, any such character likely exists as part of some rakshasa's schemes, whether he knows it or not (and it's almost always a rakshasa's doing, given that extraplanar outsiders rarely interact with Eberron by choice).

It's also established that normal creatures can be corrupted into half-fiends under certain circumstances, like the black dragon who spent too long near an imprisoned rakshasa rajah.

Yeesh; I should've figured there'd be this many ways to make a half-fiend.

Tieflings don't count? Not even tieflings with the racial feat that lets them turn into ravenous horned brutes, eyes coruscating with hellfire, for the duration of an encounter?

Aw.

They're still tieflings though and their too-far removed from fiendish influence to have the same surprise factor as a true half-fiend paladin.

+7. Yeesh. With the phylactery restrictions, you'd have to start at level 18 (though Erandis cheated).

Technically; it was Erandis' mother that cheated. Eri herself just had the cheat console, it was her mum that actually typed in "lich_mode 1".

[AslanCross]

It is possible for half-outsiders and planetouched to exist in Eberron, but usually it's not the result of sexual reproduction but corrupting/beatific influence. They could be born in manifest zones or the like. In fact, the Daelkyr Halfblood, despite the name, is actually the result of a child being corrupted by the presence of the Daelkyr while in the womb and not a child of a Daelkyr and something else.

[ShadowFighter15]

I always thought the Daelkyr Half-Blood were unique in that regard. Well I'll come up with something; this guy won't be showing up for a while so I'm not in too much of a hurry.

Manifest Zones don't have to always be in the same place, do they? Like they can come and go in areas that have an affinity with the plane?

[Cyclocone]

LEoF has the Nar Fiendbond spell, which gives the subject the Half-Fiend template, so the A Wizard Did It excuse still works (you just need to include a worldwalking FR wizard somewhere in your guys backstory).

[ShadowFighter15]

LEoF has the Nar Fiendbond spell, which gives the subject the Half-Fiend template, so the A Wizard Did It excuse still works (you just need to include a worldwalking FR wizard somewhere in your guys backstory).

Not planning to go that elaborate. Remember, this guy's an NPC who'll be there for parts 2 and 3 of Voyage of the Golden Dragon. Part 3's gonna be re-written though since the original one felt kind of tacked-on and part 4 doesn't work without part 3.

I might re-introduce him in adventures after that, but those are still a fair way off (doubly so since the game's PbP and going at a snail's pace).