[3.5] Please tell me about D20 Modern/Future/Past/etc and how compatible it is w/ D&D

[Pika...]

To my surprised I rarely, if I have ever, seen d20 Modern and the related books mentioned here.

Currently I am running a Spelljammer game until further notice (and by notice I mean how the PCs mess up ), and could really use "Anything from cartoon characters to modern day soldiers" (never mind where this quote comes from >.>). Plus, later on this might give me worlds/sphere for them to explore. Although Future might not blend well (fling sailing ships vs. Andromeda and Star Trek like ships?!).


Anyway, has anyone here played with said system before?

If so can you please tell me a bit more about what it is like? Specifically more than I learned on wikipedia?


I currently got Cyberspace, Future Tech, and have just orderedd d20 Past (for $0.99!), but sadly d20 Modern and d20 Future are so expensive that I can not get a hold of them. :/

Sort of like BESM.

Anyway, can anyone tell me if I could use these three books as compatible with D&D? If so, how easily could this be done? What woudl I need to do as a DM for it/what changes woudl I need to do?


Many Pikas in advance!

[RandomLunatic]

Well, by and large, the mechanics are compatible. A few oddities exist, due to Modern being stuck back in essentially the 3.0 ruleset (f'rinstance, Ambidexterity remains its own feat, instead of being rolled into two-weapon fighting.)

However, d20 modern has a much lower power curve, with lower saves, attack bonuses, and HP, as well as weaker class features, which is something to keep in mind. They may have a higher defense/AC if they push it, but it is well known AC is fairly useless, and they do not have much access to things like miss chances. Your avergae DnD party should trounce an equally-leveled d20 modern party. Yes, this factors for guns, which royally suck.

[Pika...]

Your avergae DnD party should trounce an equally-leveled d20 modern party. Yes, this factors for guns, which royally suck.

Wut?!

I was thinking guns and such would destroy balance in my games.


ps. What/how much should I read, from which books, and such to know how to transfer d20 Modern/Future/Past material to D&D 3.5?

[Zaydos]

Magnum deals 2d8 damage and has a relatively short range. Sure it's better than a bow (normally) but not going to be too powerful versus a 3.5 party.

A smart hero can get really high skill bonuses, and with how powerful Computer Use can be in the game it can get ridiculous (hackers can equal super win). That said this isn't how it balances with D&D which is the actual topic.

I'd say d20 Modern tends to be weaker than 3.X (although not sure how future tech weapons equal out). Possibly it's the lack of true full casting, although I will say Strong Hero looks like it might be a better version of fighter (they get 1 less bonus feat but gets several talents); then again it is balanced with the other classes. Only ever dealt with d20 Modern with splashes of Urban Arcana though so I don't know what the splat books bring.

Good luck, I've thought about this one before myself, but at the time had a long standing campaign it wouldn't fit in.

[Kelb_Panthera]

D20 modern characters will be absolutely massacred by D&D characters in combat, if they're taken from a modern era setting. If you throw in the rules and tech of D20 future it can become an actual contest. The tricky part is figuring out how the wealth check system interacts with WBL measured in gp and vice-versa. If you allow full blown D&D magic to interact with modern tech things can get really werid really quick, and balance becomes a joke (more so anyway)

[RandomLunatic]

Wut?!

I was thinking guns and such would destroy balance in my games.


ps. What/how much should I read, from which books, and such to know how to transfer d20 Modern/Future/Past material to D&D 3.5?

Nah, not if you look at the numbers. A guy with a 7.62mm Sniper Rifle deals 2d10 right out of the box, average 11. A guy with 18 STR (pretty much the benchmark for melee fighters) deals 2d6+6, average 13 out of the box. Most d20 combat is at such short ranges that range really does nothing for you.

Even at ranged combat, a fighter is using a +4 Mighty Composite bow for 1d8+4, or 8.5, so he is not at too much of a disadvantage. And, hilariously, he outranges the sniper rifle.

Now, some of the future tech may prove more unbalancing, but it depends how far forward you go... bear in mind the best casters in d20 modern use a bard's progression, and start late to boot.

[ryzouken]

d20 Modern uses a lowered massive damage threshold (Con score instead of 50), class Defense Bonii, and 3.0-esque feats. Making the two "seamless" would involve including or disincluding these from one or the other to match the disparate elements.

That said, in a "who wins, Modern or Fantasy" match, I'd have to put my dice on the Modern crew for levels lower than 6 despite the poor performance of firearms. Around 6, things get a little funky and it's more likely from that point forward that things will go to the Fantasy crew. This is due to the existence of Tear Gas and Stun Guns. The former is a DC 25 fort save or choke for 2d4 rounds (and keep saving each round you're in it, disperses after a minute) while the latter is a melee touch attack for d4 electricity damage and a DC 15 fort save or be paralyzed (until you're Coup d'Grace'd next round).

d20 Modern has a flatter power curve than D&D, you start out meh, get decent, and stay decent. Mostly this is due to the fast scaling defense and low massive damage threshold. Tear Gas remains terrifying up to about lv 15 in d20 Modern, tho. Stupid Tear Gas...

[Zincorium]

1. There is an SRD.

2. D20 modern is just flat-out deadlier than D&D. Damage threshold is well within the range of most guns, and eventually everyone fails a save. Additionally, because healing is only accessible in small amounts, barely surviving a combat sequence means you'll probably need to go to a hospital before tangling with anything else.

3. The guns, as listed, have issues. There's around five guns that are good deals in terms of effectiveness for the price, and everything else especially shotguns is strictly a worse choice. Not good design. Also, an M16 firing single shots and a 12 shotgun firing magnum shells will do the same damage at a point blank range- not only is that absurd realistically, it urinates all over the source material.

4. Magic is nerfed. Maybe good, maybe bad, but a mage using damage-dealing spells like magic missile instead of using a gun doesn't make any sense.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

In the mixed up game of d20+D&D that I was running, the spell caster appeared to totally own everyone - but he was very quickly out of spells, while the rest of the team could shoot stuff for days without pause.

At higher level (we got to about 5th or so), D&D stuff will out-class the d20 stuff.

Solution? Use the Urban Arcana rules from d20, and drop in D&D stuff as you see fit - but don't let people take the Base Classes from D&D as base classes in d20. Tweak the D&D classes into being Advanced Classes.

[Daremonai]

In the mixed up game of d20+D&D that I was running, the spell caster appeared to totally own everyone - but he was very quickly out of spells, while the rest of the team could shoot stuff for days without pause.

The spellcaster in that game was using the MCWoD spellcasting rules, so it's not an ideal D20M vs D&D comparison.

Generally speaking, a D&D party would trounce a D20M party at mid-to-high levels, if only because of the sheer number of useful magic items (and the distinct lack of similar in D20M - IIRC, if you take the right advanced/prestige class, you can make masterwork weapons at about level 10ish, but that's as good as it gets)

[SpikeFightwicky]

1. There is an SRD.

IMPORTANT FOR SRD STUFF
That's the outdated one. The up-to-date (all SRD content) is available from:
This fun link here

I tried to get into contact with the one who runs systemreferencedocuments.org, but haven't been able to reach them in a while to give the update....

d20 Future (you find it in the SRD linked above) has some very powerful weapons though. The singularity grenade can be easily tinkered (just up the Reflex DC) to provide some good damage. All that said, high magic D&D unbalances the systems the most.

Another point: Though there are some balance issues, all material in D20 Modern (and its associated sourcebooks) are fully compatible with D&D. All game terms are roughly the same. The character classes are different, but the system rules are pretty much even. (Combat, skill, saves, etc...) The only big difference is wealth.

EDIT: I'm going to add that URL to my sig...

[Pika...]

Thanks for all the post so far!

When I get back from class late tonight I will give this a better read.

However I keep noticing from the posts in this thread a major issue is magic items and wealth-by-level unbalancing things from the D&D side. I happen to run low-wealth and low-magic (someone here said "near-zip" magic when I described it once). Would this help or hinder things?


ps. So I can just read my three books and take out things from there like I would the Arms & Equipment Guide?! Is it that easy?

(I really did not care much for the classes, since this is basically Spelljammer)


pss. I was kind of hoping this Spelljamming trip/time traveling trip would provide my PCs/players with some gear/wealth/items to give them a bit of "power" they have been craving, but to still keep to my low-magic tastes. Was this the wrong route for this, or was it a good one for my goals?

I also fought the idea of being stranded on a "hunting planet" full of everything and anything possible from any genre and/or D&D setting (both offical and 3rd party) would be fun, but I hope I did not screw myself over getting to much fun (possibly carried away?) with this.

[SpikeFightwicky]

What level is the party?

There are some pretty interesting enemies/monsters in the Menace or Urban Arcana section of the SRD, and if the setting / party are low-magic, they can probably put up an interesting fight.

As for equipment, the 'Big Guns', so to speak, are in the equipment section of d20 Future. Anything from PL 6 to 8 should give some good options (medium sized 2d8 damage melee weapons, 3d10 damage ranged weapons [5d10 using 'Burst Fire'], better armor, etc...). There are magic item-like bonuses available through nanotechnology and cybernetics (though they give unnamed bonuses).

I think the biggest issue would be proficiencies. You could rule that the more modern weapons either fall under existing ranged weapon proficiencies, or require the 'Personal Firearms Proficiency' feat to use without penalty.

I'm pretty sure that between the creatures and tech, there should be more than enough to keep your party occupied while keeping it low-magic.

[Pika...]

So I just found the soldiers I will be using next session against my PCs:
http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/CR_3_Scout

They will be the starving lost soldiers in my desert that I mentioned in the other thread.


Just a few questions please:
1. What is Mas. I can not find it anywhere, and am having a hard time finding it an equivalent meaning in D&D terms.
2. Should I just count skills such as Treat Wounds as their D&D counterparts (aka Heal skill)?
3. Sadly they do not give the range on the Atk Riffle. Is that not OGL?
4. How would I adjust one to have the flame thrower?

[SpikeFightwicky]

So I just found the soldiers I will be using next session against my PCs:
http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/CR_3_Scout

They will be the starving lost soldiers in my desert that I mentioned in the other thread.


Just a few questions please:
1. What is Mas. I can not find it anywhere, and am having a hard time finding it an equivalent meaning in D&D terms.
2. Should I just count skills such as Treat Wounds as their D&D counterparts (aka Heal skill)?
3. Sadly they do not give the range on the Atk Riffle. Is that not OGL?
4. How would I adjust one to have the flame thrower?

Sorry for the late reply:
1. Mas is short for 'Massive Damage Threshold'. It's basically the same as the CON modifier. If the character takes 12 or more damage from a single attack, they have to make a DC 15 Fort save or immediately drop to -1 HP (Info for this is found in the 'Creatures' section of the SRD). If you're mixing it up with D&D, it's probably better to use the D&D massive damage threshold = 50 damage rule instead (to keep it consistent).
2. The rules for Treat Injury are in the skill section of the SRD. For equivalency, the D&D analog would indeed be the Heal skill, so it's easy to swap them.
3. It's odd that they didn't specify the specific rifle model. It does 2d8 damage, so that narrows it down. I think the most likely rifle they'd be using is the M16A2 (5.56mm assault rifle). It has a range of 80ft. and 30 bullets per clip.
4. Actually, flamethrowers are in the SRD (under 'Other Ranged Weapons'). According to the stats, it shoots out a line of fire 5 feet wide and 30ft long and does 3d6 damage. Anyone caught in the line is hit and can make a DC 15 reflex save for half damage. Anything that takes damage is set on fire (following 'on fire' rules). A full tank gives 10 shots. Funstuff