A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #151
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    This is 3.4.3, by the way. I'll try to see if extra light (wand of light or scroll of light) or extrinsic telepathy will make a difference later.
    __________________
    No need. I know for a fact telepathy won't allow you to hit something
    with a polearm -- it has to be seen in optical light. Also, the room you're in is lit. Additional magical light such as a lamp won't help.

    Hmm ... instead, I suggest going to wizard mode and wish up a ring of warning. Then poke at the question mark.

    I feel kind of bad that other priorities prevent me from running the test tonight myself.


    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    Last edited by pendell; 2010-02-02 at 08:18 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    No need. I know for a fact telepathy won't allow you to hit something
    with a polearm -- it has to be seen in optical light. Also, the room you're in is lit. Additional magical light such as a lamp won't help.

    Hmm ... instead, I suggest going to wizard mode and wish up a ring of warning. Then poke at the question mark.

    I feel kind of bad that other priorities prevent me from running the test tonight myself.


    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    Don't know how to get Wizard Mode going in the tiles version of NetHack, but I'm playing through as a Knight anyway. If I stumble upon a ring of warning I'll give it a shot.

  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    Should be the same as for the standard version:

    "C:\Program Files\NetHack\nethack-343-win\NetHackW.exe" -D -u wizard

    You can edit the properties of your shortcut, if you aren't using the command line.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    Eh? I do know that I've pulled this trick repeatedly with other
    polearms (spetum, guisarme, glaive) and I know I've used the
    lance as a polearm, ergo, the trick should work with lances as well.
    QED.
    You probably had telepathy active allowing you to see things without seeing them.

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    Should be the same as for the standard version:

    "C:\Program Files\NetHack\nethack-343-win\NetHackW.exe" -D -u wizard

    You can edit the properties of your shortcut, if you aren't using the command line.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    I have the Mac version, so that doesn't really help me much. Also an annoyance of the Mac version; it always, ALWAYS, sets your character's name to your user name on the computer. Even if you choose something else for the character's name, if you save/quit and then re-open it, it'll change your character's name to your user name. Gotta make a different user if you want a particular name, sigh...if anyone knows a way to stop that, feel free to tell me.

  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    I have the Mac version, so that doesn't really help me much. Also an annoyance of the Mac version; it always, ALWAYS, sets your character's name to your user name on the computer. Even if you choose something else for the character's name, if you save/quit and then re-open it, it'll change your character's name to your user name. Gotta make a different user if you want a particular name, sigh...if anyone knows a way to stop that, feel free to tell me.
    I am not a mac user, but doesn't Mac have a
    terminal
    application? So if you start up terminal and drive over to the nethack folder, you should be able to do

    /usr/games/nethack> ./nethack -u wizard -D

    To get a normal user with a different name, this should work:
    /usr/games/nethack> ./nethack -u <user name> .

    Full disclosure: Although I have little Mac experience, I have 15+ years UNIX experience, and my understanding is that Mac OS terminal precisely mimics the UNIX command line. Erm .. in fact, isn't Mac a UNIX box under the hood these days?

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.

  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    NetHack was designed with the assumption that it would be played on a multi-user system. Wizard mode can cause all sorts of chaos, by e.g. leaving prepared bones files around. Thus the -D option only works if you're an administrator.

    Try

    sudo nethack -u wizard -D

  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    Few things. A problem with knights seem to be that their stats are divided between Strength, Constitution, Wisdom, and Charisma. This is multiple attribute dependency. While it's not a big deal, it does effect the early game. They also seem to have some magical ability, too bad they were so much metal it doesn't really show. The killing blow for me is that, I find samurai far more enjoyable. Don't worry folks, I'll throw myself to any pain you wish just for your amusement!

    When using a bag of tricks (bag that spawns monsters) in mine town to offer corpses at a co-aligned altar in minetown, close the door.

    Pre Show stuff. Also, time paradox:
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    Late contribution to thread is late. Can't hit what you can't see! (There is a pun in there, find it!)


    Water demons. They have a chance of spawning while dipping. They will kill you dead in the early game.


    The continuing adventures of that one guy who had not died yet.
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    Why am I fighting chickatrices so early? I know I have gauntlets and boots so I probably won't turn to stone, but I'm still a paranoid freak when it comes to status effects.


    Jousting, you get a spear and ride your horse and you can push enemies back and deal extra damage this way. If someone who just looked at this lp right of now and saw this they would think that I'm a tactically genius. Of course I am!


    Eating or being an elf makes you sleep resistant. It's nice to have. Also, can *gasp* Raroy be able to consistently get to sokoban? Well, I am the tactically genius here.


    Fourth level of sokoban. If you start at the bottom, you get an amulet of reflection. If you start at the top, you get the bag of holding. What I'm doing here is testing wands. Some wands give messages when you engrave with them. This wand is magic missile. Just need to find some darkness.


    Pack of wolves out of nowhere. And to think that I looked like a professional for just a moment. I'm just here to shatter(fulfill) your dreams, folks.

    .....What number was I on?
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    I has lamp! Rub, Rub, Rub-Rub-Rub!


    Early game wishing. Such a pain. What to wish for? I've always struggled at making arbitrary decisions in life.


    Greased? Rustproof? Fixed? Words you put to make sure your weapon stays a weapon in your possession and competently wielded.

    The two best pieces armor in the game are Gray Dragon Scale Mail and Silver Dragon Scale Mail. Gray Resists magic while Silver repels. They are also lightweight and do not restrict casting. Yeah.


    This was a neutral altar. I sacrificed something on it and now I have converted it. I think I'm going to die now.


    Some sacrificing later I get an artifact from my god! The sun sword! It does more damage then a regular long sword and has a constant light effect! Excalibur is better! I believe knights get this as a guaranteed artifact.

    Now, this puts me in a predicament.

    I go down to the oracle. Since I have an artifact that means the chance that artifacts spawn is reduced or some such. I don't really know. So I go down and dip for Excalibur. I'm not very successful. In fact, it ruined my sword. Dipping in fountains can make things rusted and cursed. Does having an artifact make dipping for Excalibur more difficult? Oh well, I guess I must continue on. I mean, I'm already doing fantastic.

    Wait, Cursed corroded thoroughly rusted long sword.....

    Of self death.


    Right, got some experience. I have a better idea of when to feed my horse. Excalibur is better then sunsword. Use your lance when needed but always switch back to longsword. Samurai are better then knights.

    Man, am I tired. Not of nethack, just you guys .
    Last edited by Raroy; 2010-02-04 at 06:12 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    Wait wait wait wait wait ... Tengu are lawful and so are you. How did you wind up fighting them?

    Don't feel bad. In Japanese folklore, no mortal can beat a tengu. That's not true in nethack, but still..

    I still think you're spending too much time in Melee. Why didn't Elbereth save you from the wolf pack?

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.

  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    How did I end up fighting the tengu? No clue.

    Elbereth can't save you all the time. The wolves also caught me by surprise.

  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    Hmm, I thought water demons were beatable well before exp level 6. Apparently either I haven't tried it recently enough or Knights have a harder time of it.

    As for early game wishes, why did you use the lamp that early anyway? (My standard early wish as Knight is a Shield of Reflection if Sokoban didn't have an Amulet. In other words, I don't pop off wishes before clearing Sokoban)
    Last edited by Bucky; 2010-02-04 at 12:18 AM.
    The gnomes once had many mines, but now they have gnome ore.

  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    Because I never expect to get far. I mean, did I get to sokoban that time? Well? Looks like I proved my point .

    Yes, Shields are needed for my knights. And more Elbereth.

  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    A few notes...

    I try to avoid offering as a Knight. Excalibur is easy to get and can actually last me through the rest of the game (well, once it's enchanted), and the only artifact weapon I'd really want as a Knight that I can get from sacrificing is Grayswandir, which isn't guaranteed (Knights don't have a guaranteed altar artifact). But the bigger problem is that having Excalibur and another artifact means your chances of successfully wishing for an artifact isn't 100%, and my preferred source of magic resistance is wishing for the Sceptre of Might, allowing me to wear a robe. This is actually why I delay going on the quest until I've been able to wish for the sceptre of might, because succeeding in the quest means another artifact and a lower chance of getting it. But if you only have Excalibur, you have a 100% chance of the wish working.

    Speaking of Excalibur, I used to dip at level 5, but now I wait until level 7 because of the useful intrinsic speed, which can be useful for running from enemies that may pop out of the fountain.

    Now, for dragon scale mail. A lot of what I'm about to say is my own personal preferences so feel free to disregard it. I almost always will wish for silver dragon scale mail. This is for a number of reasons. First, it completes my ideal setup of reflection through silver dragon scale mail, magic resistance through a wished-for quest artifact (Sceptre of Might for a Knight), an amulet of lifesaving for the amulet, no shield of reflection because those wreak havoc with spellcasting, and it leaves open the cloak slot for a robe or something else. Heck, as a Knight, I'll wish for silver dragon scale mail even if I have an amulet of reflection, because a spare amulet is great when I get my Ki-Rin mount via a wish, as those will wear them. But also, I think reflection is better than magic resistance in the early game anyway. Also on the "personal preferences" is that I wish for +3 on my armor, not +2, because it gives me the convenience that I only need one blessed scroll of enchant armor to max it out if the wish works.

    Then again, hearing someone say "Get silver dragon scale mail because when you get to the castle you can wish for an artifact that gives magic resistance and also a Ki-Rin that can wear amulets of reflection" when you haven't gotten to the castle probably rings a bit hollow.

    EDIT: Bah, missed the spoiler-within-a-spoiler you posted. Okay, having artifacts around (by "around" I mean in the game; if the game randomly generated an artifact like leaving a Grayswandir around--which of course happened to me when using a class that couldn't even get Basic in saber--that counts, whether you pick it up or even notice it) gives you a lower chance of successfully wishing for an artifact and also reduces the chance of you getting an artifact by sacrificing. I don't think it has any effect on getting Excalibur, though. I recommend trying to start with fountains on the first floor and working your way down, because if you end up with corroded and cursed weapons you won't be encountering enemies too dangerous (like the Tengu).
    Last edited by Lord Seth; 2010-02-04 at 01:16 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    Yes, all those "wait until later in the game" strategies don't apply to me yet. I will try to keep everything in mind though.

    I will now bold every spoiler title to make things more readable. The reason I put spoilers inside spoilers is to not spoil the fact that a character dies (Pattern reorganization should hint otherwise).

  15. - Top - End - #165
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    Wait wait... what just happened here? Where did that rusted sword come from?

    Needs more descriptive text.
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  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    Dipping in the fountain made it like that. Sorry about that, sometimes I get ahead of myself and forget the little details that people who have never played this game before would miss. I would say play it yourself to maybe kinda get a better idea of what I'm talking about and experiencing.
    Last edited by Raroy; 2010-02-04 at 06:14 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #167
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    As a random but NetHack-related note, I have a question that maybe someone can answer. When I'm a Knight, I like to wish for a blessed figurine of a Ki-Rin so I can use it to get an 80% chance at a tame one, because Ki-Rins are awesome mounts. But there's something I've been wondering. As a Knight, I also wish for the Sceptre of Might (slotless magical resistance) and usually invoke it for conflict and leave it on most of the time. And yet, I've never had my Ki-Rins attack me ever when conflict is up. They never buck me from their saddle like a horse will when I'm generating conflict. So my question is: Why is that? I'm certainly not complaining but it would be nice to know. Is it become it came from a figurine? Is it because Ki-Rins are spellcasters, which makes it "smarter" and less susceptible to conflict? Is it because it has a high Magic Resistance and is less susceptible? Is it because it doesn't eat? Anyone know?

  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    I can't say I do; Tell ya what, after I finish work today, I'll source dive and see if I can find the answer.


    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    Last edited by pendell; 2010-02-05 at 08:29 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #169
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    As a random but NetHack-related note, I have a question that maybe someone can answer. When I'm a Knight, I like to wish for a blessed figurine of a Ki-Rin so I can use it to get an 80% chance at a tame one, because Ki-Rins are awesome mounts. But there's something I've been wondering. As a Knight, I also wish for the Sceptre of Might (slotless magical resistance) and usually invoke it for conflict and leave it on most of the time. And yet, I've never had my Ki-Rins attack me ever when conflict is up. They never buck me from their saddle like a horse will when I'm generating conflict. So my question is: Why is that? I'm certainly not complaining but it would be nice to know. Is it become it came from a figurine? Is it because Ki-Rins are spellcasters, which makes it "smarter" and less susceptible to conflict? Is it because it has a high Magic Resistance and is less susceptible? Is it because it doesn't eat? Anyone know?
    Okay, Lord Seth, I've figured it out. The answer is in dogmove.c:

    /* Let steeds eat and maybe throw rider during Conflict */
    if (Conflict && !resist(mtmp, RING_CLASS, 0, 0)) {
    dismount_steed(DISMOUNT_THROWN);
    return (1);
    }
    So a steed has a chance to resist conflict and , therefore, not throw the rider.

    Reviewing the resist code in zap.c tells me the algorithm is

    resisted = rn2(100 + alev - dlev) < mtmp->data->mr;
    where "alev" is the level of the attack, dlev is the monster level (to a maximum of 50), and
    mr is the monster's base magic resistance.

    we know from RING_CLASS in dogmove.cc that alev = 5.

    Reviewing the ki-rin's attributes in monster.cc, we find it has a level of
    16 and a base magic resistance of 90.

    So the equation would be
    resist if (rn2 105-16 < 90 )
    = rn2 89 < 90.

    Since the random number draw will top out at 89, and the Ki-rin's Magic resistance is 90, there is no possibility that conflict magic will affect it, and therefore it will never buck you off. A horse, warhorse, or pony, by contrast, has a base magic resistance of zero. Therefore a horse will always buck you
    off, but a Ki-rin never will.

    Incidentally, the ki-rin's base MR of 90 makes it very hard to magically tame. So the only realistic way to get one is with a blessed figurine.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.

  20. - Top - End - #170
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    Well, it's possible to eventually tame a Ki-Rin if you're a high level and are using a spellbook of charm monster, but it'll take a while, and in the meantime it'll be attacking you. Still, definitely nice to know why the Ki-Rin never responded to conflict. Guess that's another reason why I consider them to be the best mount for a Knight. Gotta be careful with them around green slimes though...just had mine get slimed, unfortunately.

    I hate to trouble you further, but there is one other thing I've been wondering...what decides if a Ki-Rin whinnies or whickers? I know that with ponies/horses/warhorses it's whether they're hungry or not, but Ki-Rins don't eat and thus are never hungry. So what decides whether it whinnies or whickers?
    Last edited by Lord Seth; 2010-02-06 at 03:52 AM.

  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    I hate to trouble you further, but there is one other thing I've been wondering...what decides if a Ki-Rin whinnies or whickers? I know that with ponies/horses/warhorses it's whether they're hungry or not, but Ki-Rins don't eat and thus are never hungry. So what decides whether it whinnies or whickers?
    Well, there's only one spot in the code where a whicker occurs, and that's in sounds.c:

    case MS_NEIGH:
    if (mtmp->mtame < 5)
    pline_msg = "neighs.";
    else if (moves > EDOG(mtmp)->hungrytime)
    pline_msg = "whinnies.";
    else
    pline_msg = "whickers.";
    break;


    I haven't followed in detail, but it looks to me like the ki-rin will still get hungry even if it won't starve to death or become untame because of it. If you feel like scumsaving, the next time you have a ki-rin mount and it whinnies, SAVE AND MAKE A COPY OF YOUR GAME, then leave it on another floor, then come back after a hundred turns or so. I suspect the ki-rin will have gone wild from 'hunger', despite the fact that it doesn't need to eat food. And of course you can't feed it, so you'll need to magically tame it again.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.

  22. - Top - End - #172
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    The "getting hungry" makes sense for it whinnying, but that doesn't explain why it goes back to whickering eventually, unless its hunger is somehow reset.

  23. - Top - End - #173
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    Maybe it just gets gradually decreased until it flips around, becoming full again?
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  24. - Top - End - #174
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    *eagerly awaits next entry*

    I've been attempt Tourist for a while. I've found I can get to Sokoban with high regularity if I don't screw around, but not really much farther. I've only gotten to the Castle and Gehonem once, as a Valkyrie. I've found I can't really get past Sokoban at all with most any class other then that one lucky run. Anyone have any generally helpful advice for surviving past Sokoban?
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    Aww, a griffin! Cute!
    Quote Originally Posted by Collin152 View Post
    Heyheyheyheyheyhey.
    If griffin-hugs are going around, I want in on them!
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  25. - Top - End - #175
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    Well, my experience just past Sokoban is that it's about this time you start seeing things like Mumaks and Leocrotta and soldier ant packs. Mumaks and such hit hard in melee, and Leocrotta and soldier ants are faster than you.

    So my main advice is to be a coward. Stay out of melee. Use Elbereth liberally. Use wands of digging and scrolls of teleport. Fight enemies with ranged weapons.

    Try to play a few games as a Pacifist , learn how to tame and use bodyguards to advantage.

    Never let yourself be 'burdened' or worse for any extended period of time.

    Become fast.

    Find a way to make yourself invisible and do that.

    Gain telepathy and use it to be aware of your surroundings at all times.

    Pay attention to messages like 'you here a werewolf howling..' or 'you sense a surge of psychic energy' . Know what that means, and if you're not ready to handle it, GET OFF THE LEVEL.

    Get your armor class down as far as possible, but not at the expense of speed. Leather armor, normal speed , and cunning is more survivable than plate armor and burdening.

    Buy protection from the minetown priest by donating slightly more than your experience level * 400 in gold. Pillage vaults to pay for this.

    SLOW DOWN. Treat every nethack move like a chess move. Don't just blunder around. Walk slow. Make sure you don't just walk into a polymorph trap or a mind flayer.

    ETA: Poison resistance! How could I forget poison resistance? The best way to get it is to kill and eat quivering blobs, gelatinous cubes, blobs and so forth. These have a chance of giving poison resistance without the risk of also being poisoned.

    You can also eat poisonous creatures such as killer bees and soldier ants IF you have a unicorn horn. If you get poisoned, you use the unicorn horn to counteract the poison.

    Hope that helps!

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    Last edited by pendell; 2010-02-08 at 04:40 PM.

  26. - Top - End - #176
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    You can also eat poisonous creatures such as killer bees and soldier ants IF you have a unicorn horn. If you get poisoned, you use the unicorn horn to counteract the poison.
    Technically you can eat them in the hopes of poison resistance even if you don't have a unicorn horn, it just means you'll have to accept your stats going down. A potion of restore ability can substitute for a unicorn horn, though, if you've managed to identify one.

    Another thing to mention: If you have a tinning kit (Archeologists start with them, other classes might find them) you can tin corpses. There's two advantages to this: First, if the corpse is poisonous or acidic, if you eat the tin, you will not suffer from it and will still have a chance at gaining whatever intrinsics it conveys. Second, it makes it much easier to eat giant/dragon corpses, because those fill you up fast ordinarily. Though tinning kits don't protect you from everything; you can still commit cannibalism through them, bat corpses still stun you, and cockatrices still kill you if you eat them via tinning kit.

  27. - Top - End - #177
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    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    Raroy hasn't updated in a week! Let's hate him!

    Pre-show stuff:
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    Hmm....Let me write this down.


    Right, so I have a magic marker and some blank scrolls. (I put everything else in a chest on a different floor, I swear!) Really useful. You can attempt to write some scrolls, allowing you to identify scrolls of the same name and making you a new scroll.


    Unless your a wizard, then you have a high rate of failure. Well, who needs free scrolls anyway? (Hint: I do.)


    Caitff IV: When did time fly by?
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    Remember when I told you to not kick sinks? Go ahead and do it anyway, I promise nothing bad will happen. I have sixteen wisdom, I know what I'm talking about.


    You can throw rings down the drain and it will cause effects to happen. These effects are clues to what the rings are. Too bad the rings you throw away are gone forever with the exception of a few. I just felt like throwing this ring away.


    Throne! Thrones can have many effects when you sit on them. There is a 1/3 chance that the throne will have an effect, have the effects are positive and some of the negative effects can be deemed irrelevant if you prepare your self. If you are interested in a list look here. Man, I am so knowledgeable and am great at explaing things, I should be a nethack professor!


    It would be quite less frustrating.

    Caitiff V: Wait, wait, wait. I've been spelling it wrong the entire time?
    Spoiler
    Show


    That's actually a pretty good question. Why risk my life for this? All the pain and hardships I have to go through just to get what somebody else wants? What am I going to die for? In whose name? What about me? Must I always serve someone else, and never myself? What does chivalry have to do anything?


    Here I am, risking my life by facing hordes of enemies and being forced to eat their raw carcasses for to fend off the pang of starvation day in and day out. It's too dangerous to even sleep, I spend all hours wide awake in sheer terror, paranoia grasps me as I constantly pave around rooms trying to be completely aware of my surrounds. Inhaling deeply the in the dusty, dark, and diseased air causes my vision to blur while my body rots from within. This is no life, it's not even survival, its a joke played by some god who cares not for the well being of his or her champion. Did I bring this upon myself? Of course I did, I was born.

    I could always head back. No, it's too late now, I can only head forward.


    What is love? What is romantic warfare? Courtly love! You get nothing out of it, only pain and isolation as you try to prove to a married women high up on a balcony that you exist. I remember this one noble lady I fancied, Camellia was her name, she was a spiteful, hateful, vengeful women. But she was beautiful. Where does ones values belong, eh?

    I ask these questions, vainly of course, to perhaps have some insight to what I do understand.


    All I know that there is only one thing waiting for me.


    I see it in my knightmares.



    Let me tell you the plight of the nethack player! They browse a fourm, they see this interesting thread, titled "Nethack". Nethack? they think to themselves, sounds interesting. They learn more about a game. AcII? Others are turned off, but open minded people who don't mind try the game. They said the game was hard, sounds great, video games are too easy these days.

    Soon they turn the game on. Oh my, my name? and what's this? An.....interesting selection of classes. After picking their human males they start the game. After of course, they look at the button commands for ten minutes. They go, killing newts and goblins left and right. Spending way too ling trying to figure out how to kick down doors and go down dungeon floors. They get to a mine area. Interesting. Then they die.

    Then they die some more.

    Some quit after this. Others persevere and look at the internet for help. Lots of people have beat this game, it's possible. So they look at spoilers for the game, memorize info for future levels for future play. Then read about how the only difficult part of the game is the early game. Well, the early game, is the game to them now. So they take their spoilers, learn about poison and abilitities, get better at the game, pass the oracle and get to Sokoban. After spoilering the crap out of sokoban, they get stuck. Then they die.

    Hmm, right after sokoban the early game ends. So why do I keep dieing? Am I not learning anything? I've spent so much time playing this game, what am I doing wrong? Questions they ask themselves. So they go up and read more about everything. Then see that they were doing it wrong all the time and must use lots and lots of meta game strategies and survival tactics. Then they die.

    It's extremely difficult to put it all into practice. All these scrolls and potions always seem to never do anything, when identified upon death they always of course, could of saved them. Elbereth more. It fails you eventually. It gets frustrating being unable to pass a certain point of the game. It stops being interesting Just makes you want to quit. So they sigh and think of a way to make the game easier, for they have failed in the eyes their hardcore peers.

    Valkyrie it is.
    Last edited by Raroy; 2010-02-08 at 09:12 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #178
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Lord Seth's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2008

    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    Don't give up after just five tries. When I did my Let's Play of NetHack as a Knight, it took me about eight attempts until I ascended. Annoying thing is that I was off to a great start on my first try, but there was some kind of weird error that reverted me to an earlier save (I think I figured out what caused it though; pretty sure it was my fault), and then I died while re-doing a part that I had already done before! Argh.
    Last edited by Lord Seth; 2010-02-09 at 12:56 AM.

  29. - Top - End - #179
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Raroy's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    Five tries? Didn't I tell you that I get rid of all the boring deaths? I think I had about forty knights there.

    Edit: Interesting things happened along the way, but a lot of it would be large spoilers that I would like to get to later. Give me a link to your lp in a pm.
    Last edited by Raroy; 2010-02-09 at 12:54 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #180
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Let's fail at Nethack!

    Ya know, I first started playing this game in 1990. Took a break from 1995-2002. Started up again , finally ascended in 2003. That's with all the spoilers.

    I've ascended many times since then. I know people who have been playing longer on RGRN and have never ascended.

    To my mind, it's a combination of cunning, caution, and knowledge on an instinctual level that only comes with experience. Some people pick it up quickly. Other people (like me) just keep banging away until we force our way in through raw, bloody-minded persistence.

    I still remember my first ascension back in 2003. The wonderful feeling when my character ( a female gnomish wizard) was standing on the final altar, and it was the correct one. I couldn't believe it.

    Those of us who play it through to persist at nethack do it not because it's easy, but because it's hard. Because it's a terrific challenge quite a bit beyond your typical console RPG. And Slash'em is even worse.

    BTW, about scrolls and magic markers...

    Spoiler
    Show


    There's a chance of failure for writing a new scroll, but no chance of
    failure to write a scroll you've already read. So I would hang onto the marker and blank scrolls until I've read the scrolls I'm interested in.

    Here's a handy tip: Most of the really useful scrolls have a price to by at <100 gp and can be sold at < 50 gp. They are enchant armor, enchant weapon, light, remove curse, identify. Identify is always the cheapest scroll in the game, which you can buy for <30 gp and sell for a pittance.

    The general store is your best help for early identification of stuff. See the price id guide for more details.



    Respectfully,

    Brian P.

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