Lvl 20 campaign ideas

[Adamaro]

I'm thinking of making a lvl 20 campaign (wizards only), and would like some clues/material to read on a subject. Optimized wiz may kill tarrasque at lvl 14, wizs are totally overpowered, but I would like to make things interesting. One option is, of course, to make say, tarrasqe brb20/ftr/20/clr20 :-D but I think surely there are some DMs out there, who faced such challenges before.

So, how to make an interesting, challenging campaign for a few lvl 20 wizards?

And please no "ban list" suggestions. I would like to make things intersting, not cripple my players.

[potatocubed]

I'm going to quote a bit of advice I got a long time ago on the subject of high-power characters:

Beyond a certain power level, the interesting question stops being 'Can the characters succeed?' and becomes instead 'How will the characters succeed?'

Essentially, assume that the wizards will obliterate any challenge you put in front of them. The more important aspect of the game will be how they do it, what they are willing to sacrifice to get it done, and the fallout their actions create in the process. Pay special attention to their reputations - a wizard who solves every problem with mindrape is going to be hated, feared and very very bored, in approximately that order.

To be honest, D&D doesn't support this sort of setup very well so you might have to play a bit fast and loose with the rules, but I figure that's okay for the purposes of a good game.

[Eldariel]

Eh, practically everything of relevance on level 20 has spellcasting or similar abilities. Druids, Clerics, Wizards, Sorcerers, etc. all shine in different ways, and most big monsters have spells or tons of spell-likes (Dragons & Angels have spellcasting, Devils & Demons have tons of spell-likes, etc.). Martial types can cost some actions to Wizards but rarely actually threaten their life.

Some stops have to be pulled. Like getting Wishes without paying the XP cost should be a no-no no matter what; the effect is simply too ridiculous without a limitation. You can allow Shapechange, Gate, Polymorph, Celerity, etc. and have them all used to a great effect. Hell, even allowing Genesis might be fun, though that risks too strong an immortality for things to remain interesting.

Such effects are also available to the opposition, as are a great number of other things from various monster progressions. Early epic monsters offer some great options, particularly the Abominations.


I suggest against the brute force solution of "giving things big-enough numbers to challenge them" since that doesn't really work, and forces Wizards into some very select few attack patterns that they have to repeat ad infinitum.

Challenges they have a hard time understanding offer much more interesting options though. And of course, you'll have to ensure that the Wizards know what spells they've got at their disposal since if they don't use the stronger end of spells at their disposal, they aren't going to make it very far.


I know I've said it a lot, but Bastion of the Broken Souls offers a great framework for a campaign that can accommodate near-epic casters.

[kentma57]

I faced a problem like this before(a party of 21st level characters), the final boss was 36th level. They felt it was more than difficult enough.

[Cyclocone]

a wizard who solves every problem with mindrape is going to be hated loved, feared respected and very very bored entertained, in approximately that order.

It's Mindrape, remember?

But otherwise I concur; the only way to challenge high-level casters is with puzzle-quests, where the players have to think to win instead of auto-attacking the monsters to death.

[Eldariel]

But otherwise I concur; the only way to challenge high-level casters is with puzzle-quests, where the players have to think to win instead of auto-attacking the monsters to death.

What's wrong with monsters with casting and resources again? 'cause that's what most non-Tarrasque CR 20+s are.

[Thrawn183]

I also think you should play up just how rediculously powerful they have become. Have part of the quest involve visiting every single plane in a single day (they'll have the spell slots if they know to prepare for it, not to mention scrolls).

Have fights take place on multiple planes simultaneously.

I know a lot of people don't like anime inspired stuff, but you're at a point where everyone can fly and do rediculous, rediculous things. People should be jumping of walls, swimming up water falls etc. I have a hard time even imagining what combat at 20th level would look like!

[Cyclocone]

What's wrong with monsters with casting and resources again? 'cause that's what most non-Tarrasque CR 20+s are.

Well, I was probably being vague. I'm not talking about actual riddles, what I meant was BG2-style mage-chess, where you have to plan out your moves ahead of time, so you can take down the enemies defences before he takes yours down.

You could try more direct Rocket Launcher Tag. But if you don't want to ban stuff like disjunction and gate, you'll really have your work cut out for you trying to prevent the players from either curb stomping everything or getting auto-TPKed.

Anyway, if you want practical advice, a counter-mage like a Noctumancer/Iot7FV with Ring of Spellbattle/Battlemagic Perception/Shrinshees Spellshift/Spell Stowaway can be a fun/challenging/harrowing encounter for mages.

Ofcourse, this is all very theoretical and depends greatly on your players.
If they're the type who are contend to waste the enemies with Meteor Swarm all day, don't sweat it.