Gestualt class advice.

[DudestMonk]

So I'm starting a new campaign soon its going to be Gestault starting at lvl 12.

I like to cast...I mean love to cast. Generally I play a control wizard. I've played some melee classes before too though.

I'm looking for class suggestion with which I can maintain casting prowess but still take advantage of gestualt rules. The catch in this case is that one of my classes must be core, the other can be anything...I've played Psionic/warrior before so that's out.

My stats are already rolled and I've got a 17 a bunch of 14s and a couple 12s.

Any interesting suggestions: I'm considering Battle Mage + Ranger to be a ranged DPS master + have decent AC, but I'm not too sure at this point and I'm looking for suggestions.

[Sanguine]

Now I'm not that great of an optimizer so take anything I say with a grain of salt but Warblade//Wizard has some good synergy and makes a nice Gish.

[KurtKatze]

How about ninja?

Wisdom to ac, sneak attack on touch and ranged touch attacks, nice skillmonky action due to the high int.

Or maybe a monk with the Kung-Fu genius feat for int to ac. In gestalt i would't mix 2 casters. One full wizard is surely enough.

[erikun]

I think that at that level, //Factorium will start giving you extra actions. I don't quite recall for sure, though. There is also the Swiftblade, which can give up castings of Haste for extra standard actions.

You'll have Schism at that level, so a Wizard//Psion can cast spells and throw around powers at the same time.

[DudestMonk]

How about ninja?

Wisdom to ac, sneak attack on touch and ranged touch attacks, nice skillmonky action due to the high int.

Or maybe a monk with the Kung-Fu genius feat for int to ac. In gestalt i would't mix 2 casters. One full wizard is surely enough.

Something like a limited spell list armored caster would negate armor penalties for for my wizard spells though, no? Which is why I was considering Battle Mage + Wizard. Although I've never tried casting in armor so I dunno if that's necessary.

[Duke of URL]

The most important thing about gestalt character optimization is to pick classes that synergize well with each other.

Basically, you have a lot more abilities, but the same number of actions. So what you want to focus on is maximizing your use of actions, and pick up as many passive abilities as possible.

So, first focus on a primary role -- do you want to be weapon-based, and if so, melee or ranged? A "blaster" caster? Battlefield control? Etc.

After that, find a main class that does the job and a complimentary class to fill in the gaps.

Something like a limited spell list armored caster would negate armor penalties for for my wizard spells though, no? Which is why I was considering Battle Mage + Wizard. Although I've never tried casting in armor so I dunno if that's necessary.

Nope, the ignore ASF feature applies only to that class.

[Tyndmyr]

Wizard is your core class. Bard actually doesn't make a bad opposing class at first level. Qualifies you for Sublime Chord if you want it, and gives a bucketfull of juicy skill points.

Anything also int based is pretty aweome, really. Or you can stack dips of interesting things to boost your monk. A few extra hp, abilities via monk, great saves, etc.

[Zaydos]

Something like a limited spell list armored caster would negate armor penalties for for my wizard spells though, no? Which is why I was considering Battle Mage + Wizard. Although I've never tried casting in armor so I dunno if that's necessary.

Most all classes that can ignore armor for spell failure have a caveat that it only works on spells cast as that class not from other classes.

[DudestMonk]

I think that at that level, //Factorium will start giving you extra actions. I don't quite recall for sure, though. There is also the Swiftblade, which can give up castings of Haste for extra standard actions.

You'll have Schism at that level, so a Wizard//Psion can cast spells and throw around powers at the same time.

Swiftblade looks sweet but it looks like I would have to prestige it from wizard which will cost me a few spells and means I would have to select another core class...something melee I assume. I'd be giving up spell levels but all that haste manipulation does sound cool.

[DudestMonk]

The most important thing about gestalt character optimization is to pick classes that synergize well with each other.

Basically, you have a lot more abilities, but the same number of actions. So what you want to focus on is maximizing your use of actions, and pick up as many passive abilities as possible.

So, first focus on a primary role -- do you want to be weapon-based, and if so, melee or ranged? A "blaster" caster? Battlefield control? Etc.

After that, find a main class that does the job and a complimentary class to fill in the gaps.



Nope, the ignore ASF feature applies only to that class.

Close up or ranged would work out...Like I said I tend to stay more toward the control aspect of casting, although recently its been ticking me off...too many enemies making saves and me running out of spells, which I why its nice to have a DPS backup.

[The Glyphstone]

Swiftblade looks sweet but it looks like I would have to prestige it from wizard which will cost me a few spells and means I would have to select another core class...something melee I assume. I'd be giving up spell levels but all that haste manipulation does sound cool.

Nopes.

Wizard 5//Warblade 5, then into Wizard/Swiftblade is perfectly legal. The =1 Spellcasting Level doesn't stack with itself, but you retain full casting progression.

[DudestMonk]

Nopes.

Wizard 5//Warblade 5, then into Wizard/Swiftblade is perfectly legal. The =1 Spellcasting Level doesn't stack with itself, but you retain full casting progression.

I've played War blade before...it's freaking awesome. (warblade/scion, I said fighter only because I forgot what warblade was called)

[DudestMonk]

Nopes.

Wizard 5//Warblade 5, then into Wizard/Swiftblade is perfectly legal. The =1 Spellcasting Level doesn't stack with itself, but you retain full casting progression.

This might be exactly what I do, it would give me extra actions, total battlefield mobility, all my spells and AC...You guys think light armor like elven plate would screw me in terms of casting ability?

[Faleldir]

If you're a Wizard, any armor at all will screw you... but you'll have so many miss chances you won't need AC.
Have you considered Duskblade//Factotum?

[AtwasAwamps]

You could probably slip a level of spellsword in there, couldn't you?

[DudestMonk]

If you're a Wizard, any armor at all will screw you... but you'll have so many miss chances you won't need AC.

Then maybe rogue/wiz 5 swiftblade/wiz 15

Or a good rogue esq class from outside core, or barbarian? Taking WarBlade and not having AC seems like a waste when I can get rage or sneak attacks.

[Sanguine]

Then maybe rogue/wiz 5 swiftblade/wiz 15

Or a good rogue esq class from outside core, or barbarian? Taking WarBlade and not having AC seems like a waste when I can get rage or sneak attacks.

There's that one Iron Heart Maneuver that let's you make an attack roll in place of your AC and recovering Warblade maneuvers is pretty easy.

[Mando Knight]

And then, if you're willing to give up Arcane casting for another kind of casting, Monk (or Swordsage)//Cleric is a good gestalt ClericZilla build...

[Glimbur]

This might be exactly what I do, it would give me extra actions, total battlefield mobility, all my spells and AC...You guys think light armor like elven plate would screw me in terms of casting ability?

Make it Mithral and Twilight and you should be ok. See if you can wiggle in a level of Spellsword before or after Swiftblade to drop ASF.

[DudestMonk]

If you're a Wizard, any armor at all will screw you... but you'll have so many miss chances you won't need AC.
Have you considered Duskblade//Factotum?

Those are both outside core so I would not be able to take both.

[DudestMonk]

And then, if you're willing to give up Arcane casting for another kind of casting, Monk (or Swordsage)//Cleric is a good gestalt ClericZilla build...

Another guy going cleric + Favored soul so I don't want to tread on him.

[DudestMonk]

Make it Mithral and Twilight and you should be ok. See if you can wiggle in a level of Spellsword before or after Swiftblade to drop ASF.

why mithral isn't that just light armor as well?...Elven plate is light but preforms like heavy, no?

[Mando Knight]

Then go Druid//Monk. Eye of the Tiger... literally.

[Sanguine]

why mithral isn't that just light armor as well?...Elven plate is light but preforms like heavy, no?

Mithral reduces ASF by 10%(as well as a few other nifty things), Twilight also reduces ASF by 10% put both on a Chain Shirt and it has an ASF of 0.

[Zaydos]

Mithril twilight chain shirt has no arcane spell failure, nor do mithril bucklers. If you want to go gish you could also see about Kung-Fu Genius Monk 2/Crusader 18//wizard 5/Abjurant Champion 5/wizard PrC 10. If you're good aligned you could get +13 AC from Greater Luminous Armor and +9 from Shield spells and keep Int to AC. Then polymorph into something for an insane AC. Make sure you pump your saves a bit, maybe even taking a level of swordsage for the Diamond Mind concentration in place of saves maneuvers because the DM will use save or lose abilities on you if you do this and mettle combined with evasion is nice to have if they do; especially with Concentration instead of saves.

[JaronK]

Wizard//Factotum would let you get away with anything. You want to fight? Just cast a few buffs and go nuts (Factotums can already mix it up in melee). You want to cast spells? Have some extra actions. And hey, you can even ignore SR whenever you want.

JaronK

[Temotei]

Or even psion//factotum, if psion is considered core.

[Bibliomancer]

If you wanted to go swiftblade, tehcnically yo'd only need to take wizard for the 4 off levels to maintain full casting capability, leaving 6 more levels free for warblade (at least, that sounds like that's how it works).

Also, if you apply Feycraft and Githcraft (both inexpensive armor templates from the DMGII) to a suit of armor you can reduce the ASF by another 10%. Combine that with the first level of spellsword and you might be able ot get away with fullplate (ASF 35%). The trick is getting your DM to allow a suit that's both feycraft and githcraft.

[Jack_Simth]

Then go Druid//Monk. Eye of the Tiger... literally.

Replace Monk with either Ninja or Swordsage - both get Wis to AC, and a better set of class features (Druid's core, so that restriction is handled).

If you want to powergame things some, try:

Sorcerer-X//Monk-(X/2)/Paladin(or variant)-(X/2) - taking Ascetic Mage and Ascetic Knight.

The Ascetic feats get rid of your multiclassing restrictions. Paladin gives you Charisma to saves. Thanks to Ascetic Mage, Monk gives you Charisma to AC. Sorcerer gives you Charisma-based spellcasting.

You'll be very SAD, and that tends to make the DM sad.

[term1nally s1ck]

Now I'm not that great of an optimizer so take anything I say with a grain of salt but Warblade//Wizard has some good synergy and makes a nice Gish.

Don't do it....it's a bad plan. Bookkeeping will kill you.

It's very very effective, though...take a level of spellsword (on the wiz side) to mitigate ASF. You should be able to still use Light armor, and do a lot in melee and out of melee.

Personally, if you've got the melee covered in the party, and you know you'll get ample occasions to rest, go with Wizard//Factotum, and grap a lot of Inspiration. You can literally burn most of your high level spell slots in one round, and nuke an entire encounter.